RNC compressor

[scrubs]

When tracking bass guitar with both the RNC and RNLA, there is some noticeable fuzz, as the note decays, with short release times. This can be overcome by lengthening the release time.

 

[earworm]

"unless the distortion is a result of the fluctuating amplitude suppression. I don't think that's the case
"
ok, so u say that it might be the "compression itsself" that gives some distortion, so we're not talking about loud signals, peaks,...
does compression add some harmonics then?
so its not because of low quality in the wires, soldering points or whatever,
but just the thing known as compression that gives distortion?

and how can one hear 0.004% distortion? or something similar,
i understand u can measure it, but HEAR it....only that much?


ps, i like the way falken is being honest about his opinion, might sound a bit 'rude' or 'inyourface' at some times but i like it when people defend their opinion...and of course the adrenaline of people getting stepped on their toes...hehe/

now, can you let me hear the distortion you're hearing?
cause i'm still not totally convinced,
its like talking about UFO's,,,,,,,,first i gotto see before i believe....

and one more thing... if i run a Sine wave trough my mixer and i play with the fader, give more and less volume , if the output of my mixer runs trough a compressor then the compressor will 'feel' a sine wave with a volume that goes up and down, i call that dynamics, no? difference in volume,
and changing the volume of a sine doesn't change the wave, unless u make it a square one, right?

so this way we are compressing a sine wave, not?
a sine is just a tone, no matter if i fart trough a mic or run a sine wave sound trough it..... audio is audio in my eyes...
its not cause its the most simple kind of wave forms that its a different kind of wave...

 

[scrubs]

This is from the FMR Audio FAQ for the RNC:

Why does the RNC distort my bass guitar?
At the risk of sounding too esoteric and philosophical, there are many universal laws that are, many times, inconvenient (like, say, gravity). Well, there's a mutual (and universal) exclusivity between low frequency fidelity and fast compressor release times. Stated another way: the faster a compressor's release time, the more distorted the lower frequencies will be. "Okay, okay!", you say, "I know that! But why don't I have similar problems with my other compressors?" Simply put, the RNC's normal mode release times are shorter than many compressors (some of the fastest that we've seen). This means that the RNC will induce low frequency distortion more frequently than your other compressors. "Why didn't you make the RNC so it wouldn't distort my bass notes?" Because then we'd limit (no pun intended) your creative choices for other sound sources where a really fast release time would sound really gonzo...like on kick or snare drums. Try compressing a snare drum track with the RNC set for really fast attack and release times. You'll here drum resonances that you've never heard before that can be creatively used to add spice to your mixes!

"How do I avoid or reduce the low frequency distortion?" This one's easy: increase the release time until the distortion goes away. (Doing my best Groucho Marx impression: "Does it distort when you do that? Well don't do that!")

If you have one, dick around with the release times while you play single notes on bass and let them decay. Shorter release times are fuzzier. That's the only "problem" I've ever had. I own both the RNC and RNLA and find them very useful, overall.

 

[FALKEN]

ok, so u say that it might be the "compression itsself" that gives some distortion, so we're not talking about loud signals, peaks,...
does compression add some harmonics then?
so its not because of low quality in the wires, soldering points or whatever,
but just the thing known as compression that gives distortion?

and how can one hear 0.004% distortion? or something similar,
i understand u can measure it, but HEAR it....only that much?


ps, i like the way falken is being honest about his opinion, might sound a bit 'rude' or 'inyourface' at some times but i like it when people defend their opinion...and of course the adrenaline of people getting stepped on their toes...hehe/

Thanks, man.

This is what I am trying to say. Every single piece of gear out there has a "sound". The only way a piece of gear can have a "sound" is if it is affecting the waveform, which is a distortion. From what I can tell, this is unavoidable in all circumstances, so people pay big money for gear that has a good "sound" to it. Do you think people like the 1176 because it is transparent? or the 33609 that was mentioned earlier? of course not. In fact, the RNC is the only compressor that I know of that claims to be "transparent". Which is impossible, its a silly claim. If it is transparent then its not doing its job. The fact is that it does have a "sound", whether the designer wants it to or not. Its not a .004% distortion that I am hearing, it is the compressor action. which to me sounds like poo-poo.

compare that to most other compressors, which sound like poo-poo the minute you insert them into your chain. but at least you can get good compression out of a dbx and at least you can get a "sound" out of it that's useable. The RNC just sounds plasticky, cottony...like you just put a blanket over the vocalist.... which might actually give better compression now that I think of it....

but I can't seem to understand why it is the compressor most often recommended for newbies...simply because

a) it sounds like a plugin, which most newbies have plenty of access to, and

b) the compressing action isn't all that obvious, so the user isn't readily "hearing" the changes they are making.

I should say though that the distortion that I hear isn't all that significant.... really minor, actually. its more of a taste thing than anything.....I just couldn't stand the sound of it....I didn't want to put it on anything...I don't know why I am so deep in the minority here, although I know there are plenty of people out there that have shared my exact experience. just not on this board apparently.

 

[earworm]

mhhhh
i have always been crazy about gear that has a certain sound,
i only like the dark sound, fat, pumpy, not thin, not plastic,
budget compressors like the 501 ; 160x or a simple joemeek rock for me, even the 163x is crazy!
but recently i started looking for a kinda "transparant" sounding comp,
i mean, i don't want to hear the compression but i want some gain reduction.
lots of people told me that a transparant compressor doesn't excist, i believe that, but i HATE "plastic sounding" compression,
i mean the sounds you get from a samson comp,behringer, cheap dbx from the newest series, or the totally UNINTERESTING sound of plugins,
these things just eat away bottom end and poor a layer of plastic over the sound...terrible

and its a dissapointment to hear that you describe the RNC sound as "plastic" !
how would other people describe the sound, cause of course its impossible to make a machine sound like plastic,,,,hehe,,,, but u know what i mean right?

i just want a simple stereo comp/limiter for hardware stereo mixdowns,
a symetrix 525 or 522 is too pumpy , a tc triple c is too thin

does the RNC sound like a plugin to other people too? i find this a big insult for a hardware comp...

could you compress the hell out of an extract of a song or drumloop and upload it? or mail it to
spijtig@yahoo.com

when i test a new comp i like to use extreme settings to see what it behaves like, especially the fastest attack setting interests me,
would be great if you could play some music , start with a treshold of 0db and then go down ALL the way, and boost the output volume so we still hear something...

or would this take too much time?
(just curious...read lots of reviews,but never heard it work...and i mean WORK)

 

[boingoman]

ps, i like the way falken is being honest about his opinion, might sound a bit 'rude' or 'inyourface' at some times but i like it when people defend their opinion...and of course the adrenaline of people getting stepped on their toes...hehe/

Hey, he's entitled to his opinion. He contradicts himself a lot, though, to make his points.

now, can you let me hear the distortion you're hearing?

I'd like to hear it as well, or at least get a description of it.

 

[Gilliland]

When tracking bass guitar with both the RNC and RNLA, there is some noticeable fuzz, as the note decays, with short release times. This can be overcome by lengthening the release time.

That's normal documented behavior of the RNC. Go back and read the post that I made a few days ago - right in this thread. It's post #12 in the thread.

 

[pointfive]

I've got two RNCs mounted in a rack (we call it the Starship Enterprise, because NCC-1701 was also the number that appeared on the original Star Trek ship Geek factor points... ). Considering the value, It was well worth it for me to lock them down in the rack.

Gotcha. Are the leds easy to see? Do the button extensions function well? If the NCC-1701 doesn't obstruct anything I think I'll plunk down the money for it. Especially since I plan on getting a second RNC anyway.

 

[FALKEN]

does the RNC sound like a plugin to other people too? i find this a big insult for a hardware comp...

no its not....

from what I understand (anyone-correct me if I am wrong) the RNC actually contains an Analog-to-Digital coverter. The signal is split in two; one side is coverted to digital and the other side remains analog. The digital audio is then sent through a compression algorithm (basically a plugin), and the output of the algorithm is what drives the attentuation mechanism. its pretty ingenious, actually.

I am sure someone can email a sample to you.

 

[tc4b]

I'm replying to why the RNC is a good choice for a newbie (my first outboard comp).

IMHO:

1) It freaking works. No, it doesn't color the sound, but as a newbie I don't want that. I want the simplest thing possible. I can't hear much difference in the sound, but when I'm pounding on an instrument or screaming in the mic and I notice the meter staying out the red, I sure notice THAT. Any added "color" just complicates matters. I'll get to that when I'm ready.

2) Five knobs. Sounds silly I know, but like I said, for starters like myself, let's keep it nice and simple. Every knob has an easy-to-understand, demonstrable effect. It's manageable and a good way to learn about compression.

3) Quality. At least, so I've heard.

All in all, an excellent choice for beginners. I'll look for something more sophisticated when I feel I've squeezed every drop out of the RNC.

 

[boingoman]

no its not....

from what I understand (anyone-correct me if I am wrong) the RNC actually contains an Analog-to-Digital coverter. The signal is split in two; one side is coverted to digital and the other side remains analog. The digital audio is then sent through a compression algorithm (basically a plugin), and the output of the algorithm is what drives the attentuation mechanism.

That's pretty much it. Digitally controlled analog signal path. Started in the late 80s-early 90s, as far as I know.

 

[myparents]

in my opinion u can compress a sine wave,
compression is not taming peaks,
compression is lowering volume,
so if u give 6db compression on a sine wave its just gonna be less loud,
thats what a comp does, no?
i think that you are talking about the difference between a peak compressor and an rms compressor?
killing peaks or just lowering volume...its the same to me

Compressors do not only lower volume or tame peaks while it may seem this way, the use is also to raise the average level of a source while taming peaks this is what make up gain is used for. I have to go with Falken (Castro) compressing a sine wave may not be the truest way to test due to the lack of dynamic in volume and freq. Although that kind of testing and this chat are what made me join a year ago. BTW killing peaks and lowering volume are hardly the same.

 

[boingoman]

BTW killing peaks and lowering volume are hardly the same.

The peaks are killed by lowering their volume. That's how it works.

 

[earworm]

yeah i know what u mean and i hope u know what i mean,
sure i know that just lowering the volume isnt the same as compression,
"in a way......maybe"
but i was just saying it that way to oversimplify it...

great discussion anyway, makes me think more !

 

[boingoman]

i know that just lowering the volume isnt the same as compression,
!

Sure it is, if you only lower the volume in places where it exceeds the threshold.