Ribbon mikes and SPL

  • Thread starter Thread starter Brackish
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Brackish

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Can ribbons handle high SPL alright?
Any problems putting them on guitar
cabs? I looked at the Beyer site and
they don't give max SPLs in the specs
of their ribbons. Also, I seem to
recall someone saying they thought
the manufacturers of the Chinese
ribbons were exagerating their
max SPL figures which are
listed at (I think) 165.
 
Well, the Royer R121, which is a staple for guitar cabs these days, is rated at >135dB (@ 20Hz). If you have a decently clean preamp, you shouldn't need any more than that for guitar cabs. Placing the mic further back (a couple of feet) and/or off-axis will give you a little extra leeway.
 
Issues with SPL handing and ribbons are rare, I've never close mic'd a drum with one (!) but I've mic'd up some loud cabinets before and used as a room mic on drums with zero issues. It's nothing I would be concerned about but it's a good question.

War
 
I dont understand why this question comes up, after all the ribbons survive UPS shipping just fine.....
 
SPL and ribbon mics is a subject that is usually very misunderstood, mainly because of a lack of understanding as to how ribbon mics work. They respond to velocity, not pressure. Air partical movement. At the low end, they're limited by ribbon excursion, but the high end is less sensitive, since air velocity decreases at high frequencies. In actual practice, most ribbon mics can handle SPL's of around 165 dB ABOVE 1kHz.

Below 1kHz, the SPL capability drops off dramatically with each octave - actually, about 12dB per octave. By the time you get to around 55Hz, the SPL power rating is around 110dB - 120dB, depending on the ribbon mic design.

The biggest threat to most ribbon mics is excessive air currents. Putting them near air vents, near speaker ports, swinging them, or blowing into them are all big no-no's.
 
Are ribbons inordinately sensitive to knocks
or being banged, so that they have to be
babied this way?
 
Brackish said:
Are ribbons inordinately sensitive to knocks or being banged, so that they have to be babied this way?
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that most 1" condenser mics have typical diaphragm thicknesses of around 3 (rare) to 6 microns (more common), clamped all the way around their circumference. By comparison, a ribbon mic is typically less than 2 microns thick, about 2" tall, by 1/4" wide, and only supported by clamping the top and bottom of the ribbon.

As a reference, remember a human hair is about 20 microns thick. For a velocity mic to work well, the diaphram must be as massless as possible. We're talking really thin here.

Most ribbon mics can take anything you throw at it - as long as you don't let the diaphagm get in the way of big air blasts.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
Keep in mind that most 1" condenser
Most ribbon mics can take anything you throw at it - as long as you don't let the diaphagm get in the way of big air blasts.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Harvey. What would be the advice for
protecting the ribbon when using it for
vocals?

And due to the 110dB SPL on base notes, is a
ribbon best not used on base cabs?
 
For vocals, always (always) use a good quality pop filter. Experiment with different distances from the mic. I'd say at least 12" from the mic. Have screamers further back.

You can certainly use a ribbon for bass cabs (& bass drum, even), but again, lower frequencies push more air, so place the mic further back than you might for another mic (I wouldn't advise having a ribbon inside a bass drum or anywhere near the beater, for example -- but a couple of feet back from the resonant head can be awesome). When in doubt, use a pop filter for these applications, too.
 
It's a good idea to store ribbon mics right side up, as opposed to on there side. Over and extended period of time the ribbon can begin to sag.
 
I've got 2 ribbons setup for a gig tomorrow, one as a room mic for drums and the other on a guitar cab. Both already have Stedman filters on them, it's just a habit of mine! If anything, some jackass walks up to your mic and blows in it or gets crazy at least the pop is there to protect it.

But put your hand in front of some loud guitar cabs...you'll feel wind puffing and sucking around pretty hard at times with palm mutes etc.

Just make it a habit, I've yet to blow a ribbon and I typically use them on very loud sources. I even accidentally kicked my AEA R84 over once...and it is fine. They're not quite as sensitive as you think, some large orchestras use them for outdoor recording on a regular basis too.

War
 
Yesterday I put my hand over a tweeter
similar to what I plan on miking with
a ribbon. I noticed there was a very
small bit of air puffs coming out.
Would this small bit of air be a concern
with a ribbon? If so, what would be the
best way to address this? Perhaps move
the mic about a foot from the tweeter's
grille?
 
Brackish said:
Yesterday I put my hand over a tweeter
similar to what I plan on miking with
a ribbon. I noticed there was a very
small bit of air puffs coming out.
Would this small bit of air be a concern
with a ribbon? If so, what would be the
best way to address this? Perhaps move
the mic about a foot from the tweeter's
grille?
Click to expand...

Don't be concerned. But why are you miking a tweeter?
 
Brackish said:
Yesterday I put my hand over a tweeter
similar to what I plan on miking with
a ribbon. I noticed there was a very
small bit of air puffs coming out.
Would this small bit of air be a concern
with a ribbon? If so, what would be the
best way to address this? Perhaps move
the mic about a foot from the tweeter's
grille?
Click to expand...

That's not the kind of air blast I'd be too worried about, but again my #1 rule with ribbons is always use a pop filter. Room mics, cabs, ac guitar...doesn't matter. Again, sometimes people walk up to mics and do goofy stuff and yell and blow into them and the pop will save you just in case.

War
 
Warhead said:
I've got 2 ribbons setup for a gig tomorrow, one as a room mic for drums and the other on a guitar cab. Both already have Stedman filters on them, it's just a habit of mine! If anything, some jackass walks up to your mic and blows in it or gets crazy at least the pop is there to protect it.

But put your hand in front of some loud guitar cabs...you'll feel wind puffing and sucking around pretty hard at times with palm mutes etc.

Just make it a habit, I've yet to blow a ribbon and I typically use them on very loud sources. I even accidentally kicked my AEA R84 over once...and it is fine. They're not quite as sensitive as you think, some large orchestras use them for outdoor recording on a regular basis too.

War
Click to expand...

What ribbons are you using for the session? Why did you choose them for those specific sources? The answers will be helpful to anyone contemplating buying a ribbon mic. Thanks War!
 
I used an R84 as a front of kit / room mic for drums. It has lots of boom and punch and takes EQ like a champ. Typically I squish that track with a compressor and EQ the highs and lows up a bit...then blend it underneath the kit for some growl / gel.

Guitar cab I've been favoring the sE Electronics R1 lately. The mic has more "bite" to it than an R84, particularly off the rear of the mic it just grabs the pick sound and meat and all...and requires very little EQ (if any) on a good sounding amp. I like the R84 on amps also, but it tends to smooth things out a bit more in that application whereas the R1 is more in your face and a bit more present.

War
 
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