Recording problems :(

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Royalty

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Hey everyone, I am new to these forums. I am also pretty new to the whole home studio thing too. I have a good amount of recording hardware and software already though. I have 2 mics, a Shure SM58 and a Audio Technica Pro 31. I am looking into getting a Condenser mic too, but the problem is i cant get a clear sound on these mics. I have the mics plugged into a mic cord, and the cord has a converter so I can connect it to my computer(the sound car im guessing). I tried both mics so I dont think thats where the problem is. I think it might be in the cord, what else could it be. Would my best bet for recording be to get a USB mixer and plug all my things into that? Im thinking about getting a USB mixer with phantom power. Do you think this will fix my problem? I dont have enough jacks in my computer to plug all my things into anyways so I "thought" the best thing would be to get a mixer so I can just have everything plugged in at once and use them together. I also have a Yamaha MM6 midi keyboard. I have the basics like electric guitar, bass, but even an electric ukulele! haha! But, if im looking to start recording bigtime and want crystal clear sound, what should I do?
 
Plugging the mic directly into your computer's built-in soundcard is a recipe for crummy audio quality. You need to look into an external audio interface for your mic's. Just run a search for "USB Interface" on the search function at the top of the page.
 
Hey, welcome to the site. You should search through the newbie section. A lot of your questions have been answered in one way or another. In fact, this post really belongs over there so I'm going to move it for ya free of charge.

You definitely don't want to use the sound card on your computer. Searching through these forums, you can get a good idea of what interface will work best for you within your budget.

The SM58 does not need phantom power, don't know about the AT. When you get a condensor mic, it will need phantom power.

The best way to start is to Read Read Read. Right here at Homerecording is a good place. Also be sure to check out the tweak guide:

http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

Another good source of info is the book, Home Recording for Musicians by Jeff Strong. You can find it on Amazon.com.

Good luck and have fun!!
 
haha, thanks for the help guys! none of the mics i have now need phantom power, but im planing on getting a condenser mic. thats why i wanted to get phantom power. also, if i get an audio interface, will i need a mixer too if i want to plug in my midi keyboard and like 2-3 mics?
 
It depends a bit on the interface. Look for an interface that can handle your number of simultaneous inputs, and you can avoid having to add a submixer. M-Audio has some good quality options that are friendly on the wallet. If you want to go bigger, Tascam, Focusrite, and Presonus are good options, too.
 
@ kinetic sound:

is THAT big a deal to plug into your computer? I have a behringer 4 mic pre mixer that takes two xlr's out to 1/8th inch cable into the line in on my macbook, the quality sounds fine to me.
 
tojo said:
@ kinetic sound:

is THAT big a deal to plug into your computer? I have a behringer 4 mic pre mixer that takes two xlr's out to 1/8th inch cable into the line in on my macbook, the quality sounds fine to me.
Click to expand...

You know, I was always surprised at how "not bad" it sounded when I ran a line directly from my preamp into my MacBook, however:

a.) I don't have any data to support this, but I think the Mac's are built with a little better quality of standard soundcard than most PC's out there. I can recall running the same scenario on my old Laptop PC's card, and it sounded like crap; nothing like what my Mac sounds like.

b.) when I finally made the jump away from the all-in-one box (Tape Portastudio, then Roland VS840, then Fostex VR800/VM800 combo, then Tascam 788, 2488, then Yamaha AW2400, whew!) and onto a dedicated computer interface and ITB system, the interface was much better.

To the OP, the main issue here was attempting to run a mic-level signal directly into a soundcard input. No preamp, no outboard conversion... he's relying solely on the soundcard to do these things. Could the OP use an outboard mixer and connect via 1/4" -> 1/8" cable to the PC? Yes. An outboard mixer with a USB or FireWire connection would be even better (since the conversion happens in the mixer), but this is just an external audio interface dressed up in mixer clothes.
 
alright sweet! thanks for the info kinetic sound! I kept hearing that using your line in to record was bad, but now i understand if you plug right into it, that's like using your computer as a preamp and a converter and that is not a good idea. as long as my mixer is being safe and doesn't fry / tear up my sound... i'll just keep saving for that motu 8pre :D
 
Most computer sound cards are designed to accept "computer" microphones. These computer mics produce a higher signal voltage than do most decent quality recording microphones. Computer mics = hi voltage, but low quality. Recording mics = low voltage, but hi quality. When you plug a recording mic directly into a computer soundcard, the soundcard receives a signal that is lower in voltage than the soundcard is expecting. But, most computer soundcards don't have a real preamp in them. The soundcard doesn't control level by amplifying, it can only control level by reducing from the maximum it receives. They can't bring the mic signal up to a usable level. Then, there is the impedance mismatch problem. To keep it simple, a decent recording microphone has a different impedance output than the soundcard is expecting. The impedance mismatch causes the mic signal to distort. So, you plug a recording quality mic into a computer soundcard, the impedance mismatch causes distortion and the voltage level mismatch produces a very low volume signal. Overall, not a good combination.
 
i see that you said that i wont need a mixer for some audio interfaces. but, would both be my best bet in sound quality?
 
No, both would be needed if you needed to "sub-mix" inputs before going to the soundcard. For example:

Let's say you had a standard drum set with four mics: Kick, Snare, and Two Overheads. If your interface only has two inputs, you'd need to mix these four tracks down to a stereo pair (using a mixer) before sending to your soundcard.

What tojo was after here was that if you've got a decent soundcard already in the computer (e.g. if you're on a Mac or have a PC with a quality soundcard installed) then you could skip the interface altogether and just run the mixer to the stereo line in on the computer with a simple insert cable.

I agree that this would work, but its not the only way to go. If I were starting from scratch and was looking to purchase something solely for moving audio in/out of my computer, I would look for a quality interface with enough inputs to handle whatever I was recording. If you're playing guitar and singing, then a two-channel interface will do fine. If you're recording a whole band, then you'll need something more robust.
 
okay, so all i would need is an audio interface. can i hook up midis to the audio interface or just mics? because when i look at the audio interface i only see 2 mic jacks
 
Royalty said:
okay, so all i would need is an audio interface. can i hook up midis to the audio interface or just mics? because when i look at the audio interface i only see 2 mic jacks
Click to expand...
Some interfaces are audio-only; others have both audio and MIDI.
 
Royalty said:
okay, so all i would need is an audio interface. can i hook up midis to the audio interface or just mics? because when i look at the audio interface i only see 2 mic jacks
Click to expand...

Do a little searching on the forum, read the references, and shop around a little. Only you can decide what will work best for you.

peace.
 
My midi controller is USB, and all of my midi instruments are "in the computer", so I do not need midi in my audio interface. I use the interface for "real" audio, in and out of the computer. YMMV
 
So, to solve my problem I have come to the conclusion to get a new audio interface. Now, my problem is which one to buy. I'm probably going to spend around $200 on it. I did some research but I would like some opinions, these are my choices. M-Audion Fast Track Pro, Focusrite Saffire LE 6-In/8-Out FireWire Interface, PreSonus AudioBox USB 2X2, TASCAM US-144 USB 2.0 4X4. After doing some searches I have heard many good things about all of these audio interfaces. Does anyone know if Lexicon makes good equipment?
 
Royalty said:
none of the mics i have now need phantom power, but im planing on getting a condenser mic. thats why i wanted to get phantom power
Click to expand...

Now the big question is what are gonna do with a condenser microphone? You can get crystal clear sound of an amp using a SM58. You can get a decent vocal recording with the same microphone. You need to read about mics but the most important thing you must learn is how does the sudio sigal flow. That is what the hell happens when you play and the sound wave is carreid thru cords, preamps, mixers, interface and end in a medium (reel, VHS tape, digital file) Check this book, it will give you some good advices:

Guerrilla Home Recording by Carl Koryat.

Luck!
 
Nick98338 said:
But, most computer soundcards don't have a real preamp in them. The soundcard doesn't control level by amplifying, it can only control level by reducing from the maximum it receives. They can't bring the mic signal up to a usable level. Then, there is the impedance mismatch problem. To keep it simple, a decent recording microphone has a different impedance output than the soundcard is expecting. The impedance mismatch causes the mic signal to distort. So, you plug a recording quality mic into a computer soundcard, the impedance mismatch causes distortion and the voltage level mismatch produces a very low volume signal. Overall, not a good combination.
Click to expand...

You were doing OK up until that point . . . yes, a computer soundcard is not very high quality audio, but there is no impedance mismatch causing distortion--that would only occur of the soundcard's input impedance was very low, and it's not, it's likely higher than a professional preamp. It's just that their input noise is so high that you don't get a very useable signal out of a low sensitivity mic.
 
Royalty said:
I did some research but I would like some opinions, these are my choices. M-Audion Fast Track Pro, Focusrite Saffire LE 6-In/8-Out FireWire Interface, PreSonus AudioBox USB 2X2, TASCAM US-144 USB 2.0 4X4. After doing some searches I have heard many good things about all of these audio interfaces. Does anyone know if Lexicon makes good equipment?
Click to expand...
Funny you should ask about Lexicon... I've heard mixed things about the early Lexicon units, but the new ones coming out, the I•ONIX, look pretty sexy and have dbx preamps in them. If you're thinking about a Lexicon, wait about a month or so... there's a new 2-channel I•ONIX due out around the end of February.

Of the choices you list above, I don't think you could go wrong with any of them. Personally, I dig Focusrite's preamps.

Happy shopping.
 
this is missing the point a little...

ha i have an acoustic electric ukelele too!
 
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