Recording multiple tracks at once

[Progger]

Equipment: Behringer Eurorack 1204FX-PRO mixer w/ tape outs going to in-1 and in-2 on a Delta 410 card. I'd like to be able to do things like run all the mics for drums through the mixer, record to four tracks in n-Track, and be able to mix it all together later, or use two mics on a guitar amp and blend them as separate tracks. Anyone got any tricks for this?

 

[crankz1]

With the soundcard you have .... I believe you should have 4 analog IN's, giving you the ability to multitrack 4 tracks simultaneously.
I don't know the mixer you have, but I would imagine it has direct out or at least inserts for each channel. You would have to read your documentation for the mixer as to how you can utilize each channels output or insert to send the channels signal to the IN's on the soundcard.
Taking a quick look at your mixer, I see it has 4 pre amps. I don't see any inserts other than the individual aux sends. Again, I don't know your mixer but by looking at it you should have some method of out-putting the signal from each one of the pre amp equipped channels to feed the 4 IN's on the soundcard. Depending on what type of jack there is on the mixer for this output, will determine what type of cable or cable/adapter you will need to go to the RCA inputs.

 

[Progger]

My card actually only has 2 stereo ins. As for the mixer's output capabilities, there ain't much beyond the main XLR outs and the tape outs.

 

[crankz1]

Two Stereo IN's would = four mono IN's .... Doesn't your mixer have aux sends for the four channels that have XLR inputs?
You could go from the four aux sends to the two stereo in's, then set n-Track to record "Stereo-> two mono tracks" via the hammer on the record meter. Then click the hammer on the playback meter and click "select I/O channels" and enable all the inputs and whatever outputs you want to use.

 

[Progger]

Actually, my mixer only has aux outs on the stereo channels, which only have 1/4" ins. And I only have two input jacks on the card: one left, one right. That's what I meant by 2 stereo ins. Now I'm wondering if I could just pan the bass and snare to right, and the overheads to the left, and wind up with those signals going to their respective L/R tape outs, record Stereo --> 2 mono, then clone each track and pan to where I want them in N. This sound realistic?

 

[crankz1]

When you said Delta 410 I thought you meant this card.

Hmmm ... I guess that limits you to only two simultaneous tracks then.
Panning at the mixer will split the signals accordingly, yet once in n-Track you will be limited to exactly that. Overheads will be in mono and kick and snare will be mono.
n-Track will play those mono tracks back through both output channels (left and right) unless you pan in n's mixer. Cloning won't give you a true stereo image, as the tracks are mono. You can get a fuller sound by cloning and panning, but this won't represent the true stereo image (ie left cymbals on left and right cymbals on right).
Best bet may be to try and achieve the best sound from the drums via mic placement and record the output of the mixer to a stereo track, thus giving you the true stereo image of the kit. Then you only have the option of effects on the whole kit and not individual pieces of it.

As far as guitar ... I would do stereo-> two mono tracks, then you will be able to blend them to taste.

 

[Progger]

This is exactly what I've been doing, but I've been wanting to get some more flexibility. The Delta 410 IS the card I'm using, but I only thought there were 2 ins. Went back and counted, and it looks like there are 4 ins. I probably didn't look at the ones mounted directly on the card, but I thought those were for SPDIF in/out . . . ?

 

[Progger]

Oops, those are SPDIF in/out. So M-Audio lies about their product. I've got only 2 analog ins. So now, is there an adapter anywhere that can take the stereo 1/4" outputs from the alt 3-4 submix, crunch it down into one RCA connection, and still retain the stereo image from the submix? Can I then get the main outs (probably using the XLR main outs on the back) into the other analog in with a similar type of adapter?

 

[crankz1]

Unfortunately no .... the RCA analog in's are mono ... you need to use them both and pan them (one hard left and one hard right) to get the stereo image.
The SPDIF, on the other hand, is a stereo RCA connection (digital only).
The only option I see, for you to be able to do 4 simultaneous tracks, would be .....
A) Use two of the XLR input channels on your mixer (unless you have some other pre amps) ... one panned left and one panned right ... then you would use the tape out's to the analog in's of the Delta.
B) Purchase a two channel pre amp w/SPDIF out such as a ART DPSII , which will go to the RCA coaxial SPDIF in on the Delta.
The only problem I see with this arrangement would be, how to monitor all 4 inputs. You would pry have to use live monitoring within n-Track.

May be time to start saving up to upgrade the sound card.
$400 will get you this , 8 analog in's, 2 with pre amps. Up to 18 in's using ADAT and SPDIF outboard gear.
There may be other options out there for less money, but you get what you pay for. Stay away from USB options, as most have trouble with those devices.
Myself, I use a MOTU 828mkII 20 in's and 22 out's (with the optional outboard gear I have). Yet, I shelled out $1050 to get to that point. That may seem like a healthy amount of cash, but it's just a drop in the bucket compared to the $$ spent for pro studio gear, to get high quality home studio gear.

 

[Progger]

Okay, thanks for the info. Neither of your plans are going to work for me at this point in time. I use at least 4 mics on the drums, and I really can't see cutting it down to two. That E-MU card looks very nice, and I should definitely get it eventually, but at the moment I'm saving up for a matched pair of Rode NT5's to replace the old, unknown Yamaha dynamics I'm borrowing from my dad for overheads. But thanks a lot for that link. Once I get the money, I'll definitely upgrade my card.

 

[Treeline]

Maybe there is an interim solution, depending on the budget, your time and patience level.

I track a full band digitally through an SBLive!Value card on an old Dell W98SE machine. Can't be done, as the SBLive card doesn't do digital. Except...

For about thirty bucks I picked up a Hoontech daughter card for the SBLive!Value card that gave me digital in - S/PDIF. I track live with a couple of small mixers - four vocals through one into a submix to tracks 1 & 2 on the main board (a Mackie CFX12- no pedigree but a decent small stage mixer) and the rest of the band on channels 3 - 8. That allows me to manage ten signals in so far, and I still have two stereo channels available on the mixer if I need to do a bit more.

I tap into the inserts on channels 1 - 8 (go one click only and you don't interrupt the signal; the insert become a dedicated send) with an unbalanced snake to channels 1 - 8 on an AKAI DPS16 tracker. That's available used for about $500 or so these days and it's portable. I mix down on the AKAI to a stereo / dual mono rendering in n-track using the AKAI's S/PDIF outs. Between the EQ / compression / effects available on each channel of the AKAI and final fooling in n-track, I can get something recognizeable and it hasn't cost me a mortgage yet.

My next move will be to upgrade the interface - probably with a used Aardvark LX6. That will get past the SBcard limitations, keep my digital inputs, and give me four very good analog line level inputs that will match nicely to the four aux sends on the AKAI tracker. When that happens I will be able to transport four channels simultaneously to the computer, and perhaps another two using the digital outs, which would carry a submix. That's about a $200 experiment and the great thing is I can move incrementally as I learn stuff.

When I get past that stage, it will be time to build a DAW; I would know what I want and more importantly, why.

So maybe think about incorporating a used portable multitracker with what you have for an interim step.