Recording in an Apartment vs. Studio

[hasbeen]

Just go ahead and start recording in your livingroom. Go direct with guitars and bass with decent amp simulators. If the drums can't be done live without complaints, then program them or use triggers and pads.

Why deny yourself the wonderful experience of learning to record your own stuff? Sure, it may not sound like a world class studio at first, but you can spend endless hours doing what you love to do. And the learning process is priceless. Talent and good material always wins.

Don't be discouraged by naysayers. Just do it!

DO prepare yourself to start feeding the ENDLESS money pit that will grow ever wider in your livingroom, though.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Well, aren't we getting to the industry-wide dilemma of today, which is, with all the new user-friendly technology, and more musicians "doing it for themselves" especially with DAWs, then aren't the pros with studios just refusing to accept that great recordings can be made in apartments by musicians with a fraction of the investment made by a big studio?

This is what I see: a bunch of cheap dreamers trying to convince themselves very hard that they can get a great recording without spending much money.

In short, how can you say a recording made in an apartment would suck without hearing it?

Then bring it on pal. I'll be looking forward to hearing your brilliant recordings posted in the MP3 clinic.

 

[Burden of Proof]

choosing

Well, aren't we getting to the industry-wide dilemma of today

Not sure if it's industry wide, or if it's even just of today, but it's certainly a dilemma. Notice the guys who post saying 'no' are generally professionals. Maybe not all, but most.

There's some wisdom there, to be sure, especially in the comments about brain bandwidth and hours in the day limitations. And I think Mr. Russell was accurately called out by someone quoting 'I'm a songwriter first'. You really do have to weigh the importance. If home recording is more important, do that. If having a good quality recording of your band is more important, do that (which, if you're none too sure about how you're going to *get* a good quality recording, pretty much means going to a studio). There's no having your cake and eating it too. Jack mentioned not wanting the time limitations and headaches of being in the studio - but what about the time limitations and headaches of setting up all your gear and getting it primed for recording? Even just taking the time to hit the proverbial 'record' button, not to mention unstrapping your axe and sitting down to listen through the last take (or ten) in front of your computer. That takes time. And it (usually) pisses off band members who'd rather be playing music.

But on the other hand, you'd think, if you want to learn to record audio in your home, you should probably ask questions somewhere that makes sense, like a bulletin board at a website called... hmm, I don't know... maybe...

HOMERECORDING.COM

Now, you'd think the name of the site would give some indication about it's content, wouldn't you? You'd think that people posting here would be sympathetic to the desires of the aspiring home recording tech. If you're not after pro-audio quality, just home-audio quality and the experience of learning a little bit - then screw the studio. You'll certainly learn more doing it yourself (not to discount the tremendous amount of learning to be done by watching/talking to the pros at the real studio). You may even come away more satisfied, even if your recording's quality isn't quite 'pro'.

My high school punk rock band actually sold tapes made on an orange plastic radio shack cassette tape recorder to an audience that didn't care it sounded like crap. I've also got a friend who can't even give away the CDs he and his band had professionally recorded in a $2000++ trip to the local studio. There's no accounting for taste, and he who spends the most (or puts the most 'professional' work into it) does not always win.

Lots of truthful things said in this thread on both sides. In the end, we all make our own decisions - but don't pass up food for thought because you think it doesn't taste good. Your brain is always hungry.

 

[Purge]

The idea that a good musician has to develop every waking hour to his instrument and therefore can never be a decent audio engineer has got to be the biggest load of garbage I've ever read. OTOH, it is a rarity. Prince taught himself how to play 25 different instruments (and if you've seen him in concert, you know he can play them quite well). Does this mean that every musician can pull this off? Nope. Does this mean that there might just happen to be a few musicians out there who are inspired by people like this and that they have a chance of accomplishing the same task? Absolutely.

I'm a damn good guitarist and songwriter if I do say so myself. I'd like to think I can put the motivation and drive that I have for my instrument into learning the aspects of recording. Will it work? Fuck, who knows. But I could never resist a good challenge. Until I came across this site, I had no earthly idea what a good AE had to learn to hone his craft. Now, I realize that the odds are very much against me being able to do what they do; however, there's a reason that people try to climb Everest.

Learning this shit (and really, I'm probably at the end of chapter one in the great bible of recording) hasn't affected my playing or writing at all. I like the way that one motivates me to do the other even more. And if I've ever been interested in anything in my life, I made damn sure to dedicate the time and energy to make sure I didn't suck at it. So far, so good.

Jack--keep kicking. Damn near everything you read here is true for the most part. So many things I had never even thought of before (like Cloneboy said (blunt as he seems to be for whatever reason) the amount of $$ a body can spend on cables alone is fucking staggering--I've spent more on cables than I have on guitars!)

So...take it as a challenge or get discouraged by the naysayers (who, in their defense, have VERY good reason to believe the way they do.)

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Yes the purpose of the forum is home recording but his operative word was *great* sounding recording. Great recording and home recording are two different universes.

You can do okay stuff at home... but he's doing it in an apartment. That is a major limitation compared to a house that you own, can do renovations on, and can possibly achieve some degree of acoustic sound reduction.

To soundproof an apartment to a level that would allow for decent recording of live instruments... it would cost tens of thousands of dollars and require major construction that he will never be allowed to do.

I say he can't achieve great recordings in his conditions; he says he can--I say BRING IT ON if they're so good. Prove me wrong, and prove to me you did it cheaper and easier than dropping a few hundred bucks at a studio.

 

[Rokket]

I think we are beating a dead horse. Take it from one who does recording in my living room. The results are just OK, not GREAT. And I am inventive and experimental on all levels, and while I can get close, as soon as I listen to my stuff compared to a professional cd, my stuff pales in comparison. Listen to these people. Try it if you want to, but you will soon realize what I have: home recording is fun to play with, but if you want professional quality, you have to use professionals... 'nuff said...

 

[Rokket]

One more side bar, I don't play with a drummer and kit, so I don't have to worry about neighbors...

 

[hasbeen]

I really don't get you Cloneboy. Obviously, you are the king of Maumee, Ohio, yet I don't see a link to this fabulous studio of yours where we can hear some of this world class stuff you have been prodigiously pumping out to the masses. You are so quick to dive bomb anyone that doesn't match your expertise in, what was it...oh yea, your a Marketing Executive! I am ready to be wowed with some of your recordings. Where can we find a list of this fabulous gear that you are hanging over our gaping, baby bird beaks, while we get by with nothing but Behringer modules. Being the "cheap dreamers" that we are? Can we see a list of the many credits you have on multi-platinum sellers? I, for one, am anxious to buy a plane ride to the nearest rural airstrip down there and enroll in a recording class taught by you, cuz I need to know exactly what it takes to piss with the BIG DOGS!!!!!!

 

[Jack Russell]

I say he can't achieve great recordings in his conditions; he says he can--I say BRING IT ON if they're so good. Prove me wrong, and prove to me you did it cheaper and easier than dropping a few hundred bucks at a studio.

I'd be thrilled to share the recording that results from what we do. Our first few tunes are going to be an mp3 demo for our website, and for booking gigs. We're basically testing out the sound of the apartment. If it sounds o.k. then we'll get more ambitious and go on to record a CD of material using the same set-up later on.

So, getting feedback from Cloneboy (or anyone else here) is exactly what I'm looking for. [But don't hold your breath, it will take a few weeks...]

Thanks!

In the end, like most struggling bands, we'll have to cut corners somewhere due to what we can afford. As several have pointed out, that might manifest itself in the quality of the sound at the end, unfortunately.

jr

 

[Jack Russell]

But on the other hand, you'd think, if you want to learn to record audio in your home, you should probably ask questions somewhere that makes sense, like a bulletin board at a website called... hmm, I don't know... maybe...

HOMERECORDING.COM

HAHAHAHA!!! Good point!

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

I really don't get you Cloneboy. Obviously, you are the king of Maumee, Ohio, yet I don't see a link to this fabulous studio of yours where we can hear some of this world class stuff you have been prodigiously pumping out to the masses. You are so quick to dive bomb anyone that doesn't match your expertise in, what was it...oh yea, your a Marketing Executive! I am ready to be wowed with some of your recordings. Where can we find a list of this fabulous gear that you are hanging over our gaping, baby bird beaks, while we get by with nothing but Behringer modules. Being the "cheap dreamers" that we are? Can we see a list of the many credits you have on multi-platinum sellers? I, for one, am anxious to buy a plane ride to the nearest rural airstrip down there and enroll in a recording class taught by you, cuz I need to know exactly what it takes to piss with the BIG DOGS!!!!!!

Actually, while he said it slightly differently, I have to more or less agree with Cloneboy's position. Often, there is a certain threshold of quality that most (not all!) home-recordists can't get around, due to acoustics, gear, and technique.

 

[Rokket]

Actually, while he said it slightly differently, I have to more or less agree with Cloneboy's position. Often, there is a certain threshold of quality that most (not all!) home-recordists can't get around, due to acoustics, gear, and technique.

You got me! I confess! You're talking about me! But in my defense, I just started to record about 2 months ago, I have no idea what I am doing, and I don't have two dimes to rub together in the "getting the gear for the bottomless money pit" that is a real studio set up. But I am not trying to market myself either....

 

[Jack Russell]

This is what I see: a bunch of cheap dreamers trying to convince themselves very hard that they can get a great recording without spending much money.

Absolutely! You have me to a tee. But only half way. When I was 21, my first tracks were made by:

1) placing a small cassette recorder (you know, the device with the one cheesy mic; circa 1973...) on the floor, then beating my hands on the floor to simulate 'drumming'.

2) Playing this 'drum' part back (into the air of the room) while playing guitar to it, and recording it with cheesy cassette recorder #2.

3) playing that back (into the room again) while playing bass and singing, into cassette recorder #1.

Then i'd take the "master" tape and copy and send it to people for laughs.

And I really got a big charge out of it!

Now, I am in my 40s and I know a lot more. mainly about how you need 50% art and 50% technical knowledge to win the game. I know that the music biz is not an easy biz to get into. I know that new technology has made it much easier and affordable for home recordists than ever before. Every's doing it. Bands now post their own CDs on their own sites, and they market themselves. The Big Music Label is no longer the monster God in the Sky controlling everything.

 

[hasbeen]

Actually, while he said it slightly differently, I have to more or less agree with Cloneboy's position. Often, there is a certain threshold of quality that most (not all!) home-recordists can't get around, due to acoustics, gear, and technique.

Yes Blue Bear, but you are able to walk the talk. This "Clownboy No Studio" is always swaggering into these forums and swinging his steak around like a purple helmeted guru of the history of magnetic and digital recording. Condescendingly, he spews his vitriol, yet, I never see him back up his expertise with his massive collection of works....

 

[chris-from-ky]

Quote by TrackRat: "I'll track your band."

The question is... How much money does Jack and the band want to invest to get a decent demo/sellable CD and secondly, how far are you willing to drive to get it? Think of this as well... You can track in a pro studio and get the tracks put to wav files and mix them yourselves, if money is a factor.

Chris

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

I really don't get you Cloneboy. Obviously, you are the king of Maumee, Ohio, yet I don't see a link to this fabulous studio of yours where we can hear some of this world class stuff you have been prodigiously pumping out to the masses. You are so quick to dive bomb anyone that doesn't match your expertise in, what was it...oh yea, your a Marketing Executive! I am ready to be wowed with some of your recordings. Where can we find a list of this fabulous gear that you are hanging over our gaping, baby bird beaks, while we get by with nothing but Behringer modules. Being the "cheap dreamers" that we are? Can we see a list of the many credits you have on multi-platinum sellers? I, for one, am anxious to buy a plane ride to the nearest rural airstrip down there and enroll in a recording class taught by you, cuz I need to know exactly what it takes to piss with the BIG DOGS!!!!!!

Since you cannot refute my arguments you feel it is necessary to attack what you think you know about me?

Weak dude.

Very weak.

 

[chessrock]

The idea that a good musician has to develop every waking hour to his instrument and therefore can never be a decent audio engineer has got to be the biggest load of garbage I've ever read. OTOH, it is a rarity.

I don't think it's garbage at all. Sure, you don't have to devote every waking hour to your instrument. But you do have to somehow manage to juggle a lot of things. First, there's the whole "learning to be an effective AE" thing while spending the bare minimum amount of time on music. Not to mention if you're working with a computer-based setup, you're going to have to learn how to become at least a moderate computer geek. Otherwise you'll spend half your days yanking your hair out.

Then, if you're going to try and make your apartment, basement, closet, or whatever sound good enough to make records, you're going to have to know a thing or two about accoustics and have some basic carpentry skills to implement and apply this knowlege . . . so there's even more time you're going to have to spend learning things, building and re-arranging things.

Now as we all know, this stuff is going to cost some money -- face it, you're a gear junkie now, and you have a habbit to support. This is going to mean you'll have to work a lot of hours and bring in some sort of income to support yourself and your habbit. That's about half the hours in your day gone right there.

Then there are other time-suckers like girlfriends, wives, kids, friends who want you to spend money with them on trips, bars, parties, dates, etc.

Now if you're a normal person . . . at this pace, by the time you get up to snuff on your recording skills to the point where you can do an exeptional recorded product, accumulated the necessary gear, tweaked your recording and monitoring space . . . you might be a good deal older, and you run the risk that the relevence of your music and song ideas will be outdated. Maybe you'll just have other interests by then, a family to support, etc.

Other than that, I pretty much agree with what you're saying. Whether or not something can be done is one thing . . . whether or not it's a practical or reasonable goal is another.

Exceptional individuals can do exceptional things. Most of us are not exceptional. I'm certainly not. I think I'm good at certain things because I chose to concentrate my time and energy on them, rather than trying to be jack of all, but ultimately master of none. Most of us are like that in this day and age . . . but if you're exceptional, then by all means go and do everything you can do, be the best and enjoy it!

 

[Jack Russell]

Quote by TrackRat: "I'll track your band."

The question is... How much money does Jack and the band want to invest to get a decent demo/sellable CD and secondly, how far are you willing to drive to get it? Think of this as well... You can track in a pro studio and get the tracks put to wav files and mix them yourselves, if money is a factor.

Chris

That's not a bad idea, if I had a budget that I was willing to throw out the window. When I last checked rates in good studios, it seemed to be at least 40$/hour. After two days of laying tracks we'd have spent 16 x 40$, which is $640. That much money would easily have paid for one good mic. No, I'm still convinced that investing in my own equipment is the better move. [Keep in mind, there is always ebay. Great gear can be found cheaply if you are persistent. You can 'cash in' gear also.] Plus, a band with it's own studio, even if it has the bare bones of the gear needed, is ahead of the game in that they can go work on the tracks for free anytime they want.

The music biz used to be about bands honing their sound, getting discovered, then the Big Bucks Label would pay for them to go into a studio to make a product (with supervision, of course). Nowadays, the trend seems to be for Big Labels to just wait for bands to come up with their own product, and (correct me if I'm wrong), as long as it sounds reasonably good, they'll ignore the Big Studio step and just go strait to distribution and promotion. But then again, perhaps it depends on the genre of music? The Debbie Boones of the world, who represent a 'generic' sound, probably still need the Big Studio production step. The "alternative" musicians, or grunge types, can do without it. Yes?

 

[chessrock]

After two days of laying tracks we'd have spent 16 x 40$, which is $640. That much money would easily have paid for one good mic.

Well . . . assuming you've got more than one member in your bad, that would actually come out to about $160 per head. That won't even get you a decent budget condenser.

That's a freakin' bargain for a good demo or CD.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Yes Blue Bear, but you are able to walk the talk. This "Clownboy No Studio" is always swaggering into these forums and swinging his steak around like a purple helmeted guru of the history of magnetic and digital recording. Condescendingly, he spews his vitriol, yet, I never see him back up his expertise with his massive collection of works....

I don't have a massive collection of works. I quit my day job only 4 months ago.

Well I work out of a studio (SOR Studios in Toledo, Ohio). My "measly" home recording setup consists of a 24 channel 8 buss Allen & Heath 248 and Alesis HD24XR, Cubase SX, Waves Diamond, and Wavelab. My personal instrument setup is mostly keyboard--Sequential Circuits Prophet 5 rev 3.2 w/ SCI MIDI modification, Korg Z1, Roland Juno 60, a Brian Moore i2 guitar and about 10 vintage stompboxes.

At the studio we have a Mackie HDR24/96 and Mackie D8B that is getting replaced next week with a DXB with dual UAD-1 cards. We got broken into twice in the last two weeks and are in a bit of a mess now with getting the insurance money and improving security.

I'll be honest with you here--most of the bands I record aren't very good. Of course I don't post those. 90% of the stuff I record is gangsta rap which I don't care for, and quite frankly most of them aren't what I considered to be talented. Just because they can sell drugs and afford to record doesn't mean they deserve to. But they pay and I'm a whore.

I'll accept your full apology when I post the finished Fire From July sessions I'm working on. Unfortunately due to the break in the session has had to take a few weeks hiatus. Please make sure to post some of your work so we can compare notes.