Recording Guitar For Live Background Track

[BluesBenderNC]

I'm a newbie at this & sure wish I knew what I was doing, but here's the gist -
I have a 3 piece band. I would like to record some rhythm guitar to be used during the live performance to free me up to do some lead without leaving such a hole in the music.
Investigating buying a Boss 900 or 1200 digital recorder. I have to have something with a click track and something that will give me a 1,2,3,4 count off at the beginning too. I'd like to be able to split the tracks so the click track can be sent to the drummer's monitor and the rhythm guitar to the main speakers and monitors too if needed.
Someone told me the easiest way to do it is with an Ipod into the pa mixer, ut I've also been told a mini disk player (Tascam?) is the way.
Help!!
I don't know what I'm doing and don't know how the whole process works.
If I record the rhythm and then decide to add another instrument, how in the world do you get the timing to sync>
And, what if I had a commericial midi file with lots of instruments on it, could I load that into the Boss & use some of that sound too in the final mix?

Is my thinking anywhere correct or what ?

Thx a bunch !!

 

[Guitarer]

I'm gonna be honest and tell you I didn't really read your post...but I recommend looking into a looper. It'll be much easier to setup. Just throw it on your pedalboard and record in real time to show the audience it is actually you playing your backup track.

Otherwise you have the whole mess of your rig not sounding the same as previously recorded, not being the same volume, etc.

 

[BrentDomann]

Are you posting from a laptop? For that kind of routing, I think your greatest need is for multiple outputs. If I were you and had a laptop, I'd look for breakout boxes. If not, I think you may be stuck with mono backing guitar tracks - i.e., you could rout the click track to the left, for example, and the backing track to the right, and treat it as two mono signals instead of a single stereo signal.

 

[BluesBenderNC]

Are you posting from a laptop? For that kind of routing, I think your greatest need is for multiple outputs. If I were you and had a laptop, I'd look for breakout boxes. If not, I think you may be stuck with mono backing guitar tracks - i.e., you could rout the click track to the left, for example, and the backing track to the right, and treat it as two mono signals instead of a single stereo signal.

I could live with the mono signals. My problem is trying to get that far in the process trying to figure out the other stuff. I have a Yamaha Mixer MG166CX.

Thx

 

[BrentDomann]

If all you want to do is use two mono signals, the iPod trick will work if you get the proper cables. If you don't have any recording gear, you'll need to get at least something. I have no experience with the Boss boxes, but if you have a decent computer you can get something like a Lexicon unit (Alpha, Lambda, Omega) and some recording software for much less than you'd pay for hardware DAWs. Then you could even mixdown, import, compress, and save to an iPod all in your computer without having to fiddle around with transfering the files all over everywhere.

The looper is a good idea, too, as might be also just trying to play without all of the backing tracks. Of what is your bassist capable? Can he/she play keys? Could they fill out the bottom end a little more while you play lead?

 

[BluesBenderNC]

I'd rather not mess with a looper. DAW is what I want to try.

Is it possible to import a midi file (maybe I can convert it to a sav file) into the DAW and link that up with my rhythm track?

 

[Elton Bear]

If you're just worried about leaving a hole in the music I would suggest something in the arrangement of your songs would be easier - either play more rhythmic solo passages or have your bass player invest in a fuzz pedal to fatten the bass sound up in the mids to leave space for your fretwanking (i use the term in the friendliest way possible )

If you really want to get the backing tracks to do it, I think you'd be best off with a laptop and a cheap interface just to get something recorded, I wouldn't worry so much about it matching your live sound if you just want something sat in the mix to fill that gap you've got.

The cheapest way to do it if you already have a laptop would be to get something like an edirol interface and use free software like Reaper to record your guitar to a click, then pan the click to one side and guitar to the other as someone said. That way you send one output to the drummer and one to FOH.

As for MIDI or other effects, you just plonk whatever you want straight into your DAW and that's what comes out of the speakers.

 

[BluesBenderNC]

btw, I saw one of those Lexicon things on the internet recently and wondered about that. If all I want at this piint is guitar rhythm, that might be the way to go as long as I can mix it right and add click track.

 

[BluesBenderNC]

Here's an idea of the tunes I want for background tracks -
Tore Down, You Wreck Me, Hard To Handle, Cold Shot, Listen To The Music, Margaritaville, Stormy Monday, Red House, Gimme 3 Steps, Breeze, Honky Talk Women, Brown Sugar and many more.

Notice these songs have a definite beginning, middle & ending so they are all played the same each & every time - perfect to have background rhythm.

I just want to flip the switch to count off 1,2,3,4 & go into the songs.

I also have a 4 piece band with a keyboard player (keyboard doesn't have a drive) that I might want to use some commercial midi files to add horns & such. I've found quite a few free midis that are good quality - not cheesey sounding - and would work perfectly in that band too, but we MUST have a click track.

I know alot of the bands do this - I'm just trying to catch up.

The logistics of all this is over my head though.

 

[BrentDomann]

I've just figured out what you're asking in regards to the midi track issue. The Boss units won't do that. You need either a synth or a softsynth running through a computer to play back those midi files (the midi is just data that is controlling a synth - I hope that this doesn't sound like I'm talking to you like an idiot), and on top of that you're going to need to sync it with the click track and rhythm tracks. As I said before and as Elton Bear reiterated, I think your best bet is to get the rest of the band to help out. If that is impossible, then what you really need is probably a laptop plus an interface like the Lexicon, Edirol, or one of the other 8 million that are on the market.

 

[BluesBenderNC]

It's ok - I AM an idiot when it comes to this.
Let's forget the midi stuff for now.
I forgot to ask if you think the Boss BR-900 would be as good as the BR-1200 - save a little $ if possible. Or hell, if all I want is to lay down a guitar track, go with the Boss Micro - if it can do a separate click track. I read up on the Lexicon Omega, and it got bad reviews for not working.
I just don't know where I want to go with this, but I do want to keep it simple. When playing out live I have enough to do without having to worry about pushing a bunch if buttons. The Ipod idea kinda appeals to me. Or, why couldn't I just play back the file from the Boss recorder into the pa?

 

[BrentDomann]

I read up on the Lexicon Omega, and it got bad reviews for not working.

I have one, and I really like it. It's the second, though, as I had to return the first one. Once I got a working one it really opened up some possibilities. You might look at something similar, even one of those Line6 boxes they have out.

I just don't know where I want to go with this, but I do want to keep it simple. When playing out live I have enough to do without having to worry about pushing a bunch if buttons. The Ipod idea kinda appeals to me. Or, why couldn't I just play back the file from the Boss recorder into the pa?

From the options discussed, I think the best (in order from more simple to more complicated) are the following:

1. Fixing the arrangement and/or hollering at the bass player to fill out lead runs more (I understand this probably isn't going to happen).

2. Using whatever you have to record with now or a simple interface like an Alpha, a TonePort, or even a single-channel-in kind of a thing to record backup guitar, and bouncing that with a click track hard panned apart to a stereo file, then playing that back through the PA via an iPod or laptop.

3. Using a bigger interface (i.e. an Omega) and running everything from the laptop and a computer program (like Logic, Cakewalk, ProTools, etc.) out to the PA. This avoids the bouncing in #2, and gives you lots of routing options and options to later add your midi stuff, but will require you to navigate a bunch of menus while your audience gapes at you like a bunch of slack-jawed mouth breathers.

4. The BRX00 method. Same as #3, minus the routing flexibility, with more difficult-to-navigate transitions between songs (meaning more audience-gaping), plus a couple hundred bucks.

 

[BluesBenderNC]

OK - thx for all the help. Lots to think about.
Ever used a program called Power Tracks for editing midis? Looks pretty good.