Recording Cymbals

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ez_willis

ez_willis

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I'm recording my drums. I have everything close mic'ed because the room sounds like crap, it's too small and dead.

Rather than having stereo overheads, is it feasible to just mic the two crash cymbals? I'll be using 2 Octava mc-012's.

If so, tips on placement, please.
 
Just from experience, it's so much better to do 2 mics as overhead. Not only do you get the cymbal sounds, etc. it also creates a very nice stereo image of the drumset, rather than just taking single close mikes and panning them in stereo. It makes it seem so much more real. Just my opinion though.

Take care,
Adam.
 
if you can do it... do it! if its a studio recording where you'll get a second chance the worst thing that happens is a re-record or using sampled cymbals.

i recorded a famous local (Washington DC) jazz musician with his two sons a few years ago. i close mic'd the cymbals because we were in a low (7') basement with concrete walls. the recording (while not pristine) sounds pretty good and i didn't get much of the crappy room.

the musician died very soon thereafter.
 
Yep, there's nothing wrong with using a spaced pair. For the last band I recorded, I used a spaced pair for the overheads and it came out quite nice. But I'd suggest you at least give the X/Y set-up a try. It can take a little while to set up properly, but you practically eliminate phase issues and get a really nice stereo image out if it.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=198307&highlight=PITA
 
my room also sounds like garbage but i still use the overheads

i do them spaced and i try to keep them relatively low

and when mixing i pan them hard left and right and i keep the levels low just so the room doesn't come through too much on the mix
 
Nick The Man said:
when mixing i pan them hard left and right and i keep the levels low just so the room doesn't come through too much on the mix
Click to expand...

That's the problem. If the overheads are low in the mix my cymbals are too low.
 
crosstudio said:
if you can do it... do it! if its a studio recording where you'll get a second chance the worst thing that happens is a re-record or using sampled cymbals.
Click to expand...

I'm in my studio(garage :) ) recording myself, so the pressure is relatively low. Actually, it's non-existent.
 
MadAudio said:
Yep, there's nothing wrong with using a spaced pair. For the last band I recorded, I used a spaced pair for the overheads and it came out quite nice. But I'd suggest you at least give the X/Y set-up a try. It can take a little while to set up properly, but you practically eliminate phase issues and get a really nice stereo image out if it.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=198307&highlight=PITA
Click to expand...

How high should the x/y mic's be abve the snare, roughly?
 
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ez_willis said:
High high should the x/y mic's be abve the snare, roughly?
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Not to sound flip, but wherever it sounds good. In the space you have, putting them at the same height as your own ears when standing is a good starting point. Then adjust to taste.
 
You can also pick up alot of cymbal by copying and compressing your tom mic tracks. Low threshold, fast release, though you'll pick up a bit of the room as well
 
Bulls Hit said:
You can also pick up alot of cymbal by copying and compressing your tom mic tracks. Low threshold, fast release, though you'll pick up a bit of the room as well
Click to expand...

I'll try it

I've been gating the toms, but I haven't recorded the drum tracks for a song I just wrote. I'll give it a whirl.
 
MadAudio said:
Not to sound flip, but wherever it sounds good. In the space you have, putting them at the same height as your own ears when standing is a good starting point. Then adjust to taste.
Click to expand...


You know, thinking about it, I've tried the x/y thing in the past. I didn't like the results. Given, I didn't mess with placement too much, but I recall having the same issue with the rest of the kit being too loud and the cymbals not being loud enough.

The ceiling in here is under 8', and the room is 12' x 12'. I'm working with what I've got. :o
 
ez_willis said:
You know, thinking about it, I've tried the x/y thing in the past. I didn't like the results. Given, I didn't mess with placement too much, but I recall having the same issue with the rest of the kit being too loud and the cymbals not being loud enough.

The ceiling in here is under 8', and the room is 12' x 12'. I'm working with what I've got. :o
Click to expand...

Sounds like we are working with about the same dimensions. I too have tried x/y and didn't like it although I'm sure I was screwing it up somehow. ;)

I might go back to it but I'm sketchy on where the rig actually goes and how to angle the mics. I have seen pics of the x/y setup but I can never tell from the pictures exactly how to place it.
 
Close micing the cymbals should be fine. Clip mics are good for this You can place the clip mics under the cymbals making sure that the cymbals cant hit the mics at any angle.

I would set up OHs aswell so you have more choice at the mixing stage. If the OHs sound crap in the room then dont use them.
You can always hi pass the OHs to around 4K or there abouts.

Eck
 
This may or may not fit, but in a similar situation here- room is not large, no nice high ceiling to be had, almost always the bass and/or some guitar near by at the same time..
The kit' is an omni pair low and slightly rear -a 'less bleed compromise position, but covers the skins well. I added a fairly-close spaced pair to do the L/R cymbal option. These end up being at a fairly similar distance from the kit center (snare/kick junction) as the main set.
They typically get rolled off and stay fairly low in the mix so whatever 'phase color they add is fairly minimal. Polarity' is yet another color to play with any who.. Never needed to mess with 'track sliding..

I do gobos on either side of he kit and a cloud pair tucked overhead but that's more along dealing with keeping the kit tight, room and bleed control issues.
A remaining downside, or limiting factor is not getting to get some nice 'distance on the picture. The low cut helps but I've still had some regrets where the cymbals come off 'too big' (but useually that's cause they were too damned 'big' to begin with. :rolleyes:
:D
 
You can always hi pass the OHs to around 4K or there abouts.
Click to expand...

i don't know if i'd go that high w/ the HP filter...seems to me like most cymbals have fundamentals roughly around 1-2k

personally i do what others here have mentioned with my tiny tiny drum room, which is to use a spaced pair about 2' over the kit...one mic centered over the left-hand cymbals, the other over those on the right.
 
An essay on mic'ing cymbals

Let us commence a journey into the much travelled topic of mic'ing cymbals. There are many factors which influenced the development of mic'ing cymbals. Remarkably mic'ing cymbals is heralded by shopkeepers and investment bankers alike, leading many to state that it is important to remember that ?what goes up must come down.? Often it is seen as both a help and a hinderence to global commercial enterprises, many of whom blame the influence of television. Though I would rather be in bed I will now examine the primary causes of mic'ing cymbals.

Social Factors

Society begins and ends with mic'ing cymbals. When Lance Bandaner said 'twelve times I've traversed the ocean of youthful ambition but society still collects my foot prints' [1] he globalised an issue which had remained buried in the hearts of our ancestors for centuries. A child?s approach to mic'ing cymbals provides standards by which we may judge our selves.

Did I mention how lovely mic'ing cymbals is? It breaks the mould, shattering man's misunderstanding of man.

Economic Factors

Do we critique the markets, or do they in-fact critique us? We shall examine the Fish-Out-Of-Water model, a classic economic system of analysis. Annual
Military
Budget

mic'ing cymbals


There is no longer a need to argue the importance of mic'ing cymbals, it is clear to see that the results speak for themselves. The question which surfaces now is, how? My personal view is that the annual military budget plays in increasingly important role in the market economy. Assumptions made by traders have caused uncertainty amongst the private sector.

Political Factors

Politics has in some areas been seen to embrace an increasing ananiathesis of intergovernmentalism leading to neo-functionalism. Looking at the spectrum represented by a single political party can be reminiscent of comparing mic'ing cymbals and former Wolves striker Steve Bull.

To quote the uncompromising Elijah H. Amster 'A man must have his cake and eat it in order to justify his actions.' [2] Amazingly, he new nothing of mic'ing cymbals until he was well into his thirties. I feel strongly that if politicians spent less time thinking about mic'ing cymbals and put more effort into their family life, that we would have a very different country.

One thing's certain. The Human species liberally desires mic'ing cymbals, and what's more human than politics?
Conclusion

We can say with certainty mic'ing cymbals must not be allowed to get in the way of the bigger question: why are we here? Putting this aside its of great importance. It brings peace, puts out 'fires', and is always fashionably late.

What a great essay. Finally a word from super-star Christina Kournikova: 'My Daddy loved mic'ing cymbals and his Daddy loved mic'ing cymbals.' [3]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1] Lance Bandaner - Adventurous Spirit - 1993 See-Saw Publishing

[2] Amster - The Popular Vote - 2002 Worldwide Publishing

[3] Go mad for mic'ing cymbals - Issue 132 - Kendeal Books

Have you tried the recorderman method?
 
I've done this, though with more than two cymbals and more than two mics. I miked two crashes, two chinas, ride, and hi-hat separately and it came out pretty good, except for having eight hi-hats coming from eight different places. :)

Close mic around the bell of the cymbal. You may have problems getting the ride through if you're only miking the two crashes, and in some instances the hi-hats may not come through too well either.

Personally, I'd just go with the x/y and live with the shitty room sound.
 
When using X/Y where do the mics go? In front of the kit? Behind the kit? Over the snare? Do they point straight down? I have seen pics that make the mics look like they are in front of the kit with the mics kinda pointing down but at the kit.
What's the deal?
 
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