Recording Bluegrass

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thomas1831

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Ok i have been mostly recording metal and alt rock since i have started. tonight i have a 4 piece bluegrass band coming in (stand up bass, guitar, mandolin, and dobro/banjo ) any suggestions on what i should do for a set up? I have 1 iso room 10'x10' deadend and a pretty large main room i have a edirol fa101 so i have 8 ins. for mics i have a shure sm7, shure sm 57, shure sm58, studio projects b1, 2 mxl 603s, mxl V67g, mxl 2003, akg d112, and a bunch of apex and dixon dynamic mics. any suggestions will be muchly appreciated.

thank you
 
A couple of different approachs with the mics you have. You could do it the old time way which was to have them gather around a single mic (either of the LDC condensors and have them "mix" themselves by where they stand and step towards the the mic for solos and such. This can be very cool. Or you can try to tight mic, but I'd still have them all in the same room, just seperated enough to get SOME isolation. I'd use the 603's on the guitar and madolin, maybe one of the LDC's on the dobro, I'd try the D-112 on the bass or one of the LDCs. I'd use a 57 on the banjo for sure and if possible dub the vocals later.
 
my friend recently recorded some bluegrass with a pair of earthwerks... just adjust the musicians around them... traditionally, there would be 1 mic, and the musicians would move to or from it accordingly.. but since now is the future.. i would put a room mic, or stereo room mic .. following tradition.. and then mic everything else til you fill up the 8 inputs
imho:
-d112 on the bass hole, 57 on the bass strings
- a 57 on the mando
- the 603s on the guitar and dobro
- the 2003, and b1 for room mics
- put the last mic on the main instrument -(there's usually a leader)

there ya go... but be sure to set the instruments in proximity to the room mics before you mic everything else, that way at least you have a good premixed stereo sound.

gl
 
--sorry to double some of trackrats post- but he posted while i was posting!!!
-also i'd use your live room too...
 
In a good room, set up the MXL 603s in an X/Y configuration. Experiment with placement of the players, and it's okay for them to step up for their leads.
 
i've never done bluegrass, but it would be fun to try the "traditional" method.

(1 or 2 mics etc.....)

better be an awsome sounding room though.
 
Good stuff here.

I've recorded quite a bit of bluegrass.

As trackrat said, don't try to isolate things!!! It won't work. It just doesn't sound right. Bluegrass players typcially already know how to mix themselves so let them do it, but seat them so that they don't move and place them in a wide semi circle for a little separation.

I've had my best results by setting up an X/Y stereo setup for the bulk of the sound.
The X/Y isn't really a "room" mic- its more like overhead on a drum kit: designed to get a stereo spread of the whole picture. Of course it captures a good bit of room sound as well- usually enough that I don't bother with room mics unless its a gorgeous room.

I then close mic each instrument for mixing control. Since the players are usually in a half circle facing the X/Y's be very careful about placement a phase issues. There's TONS of bleed going on everywhere but...hey, its bluegrass and it sounds right that way.

So... with your mic collection.

603's as the X/Y (if you try to use them as close mics they'll pick up WAY too much banjo no matter what you do...)

57 and 58 w/o the ball on the mando and guitar. You could try LDC's too, but put the mando and guitar player on the other side of the circle from the banjo. I'd place them Guitar / Mando / Bass / Banjo.

For the bass go I'd go with the suggestions above, except that your 57 will be in use elsewhere.

If they sing, see if you can get them to overdub the vocals. If they don't want to, put 2 LDC's up at head level making an equalateral traingle with 2 musicians each - make sense? You may not end up using them and rely on the X/Y's for vocals, but they'll give you some vocal mixing options of they don't kill you with phase probelms.

So
1- X
2- Y
3- Guit
4- Mando
5- Bass
6- Banjo / Dobro
7- Vox 1 (or Bass mic 2)
8- Vox 2 (or room mic)

Have fun. Recording good bluegrass musicians is a lot of fun. They are typcially much less of a headache than rock musicians. They already know that all the good stuff is supposed to come from them and not from you. :)

Take care,
Chris
 
Chris Shaeffer said:
Have fun. Recording good bluegrass musicians is a lot of fun. They are typcially much less of a headache than rock musicians. They already know that all the good stuff is supposed to come from them and not from you. :)

Take care,
Chris


um.......
where can i find me some of these "competent musicians" who think that "good tone" comes from "technique" and "quality instruments" and a "good song" is a result of "practice" and "experience"??

seriously........... i want to know.
 
Just about every bluegrass group I've worked with doesn't think about much other than their instrument and their playing- recording them is just capturing what they do. Bluegrass musicians aren't typically thinking "Oh, we'll go into the studio and the engineer will make us sound killer" because bluegrass has *never* been a studio driven genre. Its always been performance driven.

-Chris
 
Chris Shaeffer said:
Just about every bluegrass group I've worked with doesn't think about much other than their instrument and their playing- recording them is just capturing what they do. Bluegrass musicians aren't typically thinking "Oh, we'll go into the studio and the engineer will make us sound killer" because bluegrass has *never* been a studio driven genre. Its always been performance driven.

-Chris


yea, i totally dig that......... been doing way to much tuning and editing lately, that’s all.
 
thankss for the ideas everyone. i ended trying a bunch of different things the best sound i got was by putting the MXL 2001 in the center of the room and i had all the guys stand around it in a half moon. It took awhile to get everyone placed so that the harmonies blended. the bass player owns a music store so he has a super nice pickup on his super old and expensive stand up so i also ran him DI which sounded good. there coming back in to do some more stuff were just working on finding sounds so the more ideas the better. thank you

chris
 
giraffe said:
um.......
where can i find me some of these "competent musicians" who think that "good tone" comes from "technique" and "quality instruments" and a "good song" is a result of "practice" and "experience"??

seriously........... i want to know.
Just start hanging with musicians who have been at it for more than a couple of years, and who care about making music and not about being a rock star. The double-edged sword is these tend also to be the ones who aren't in much of a rush to record, unless they're working as session musicians for someone else. It's an inverse property law; the more the musician cares about playing the music, the less they care about recording it. Unless of course they already have broken through and become "recording artists"; but in that case you won't find them in most of our pimple-faced studios.

I tell you the difference is night and day between the guys I work with live (and have known for a long time) and most of my studio clients. The live guys, most of which have been playing for 20 years or more and many of which are also session musicians who have appeared on some suprisingly big name albums over the years, are by far the most fun and enjoyable to listen to and to watch play because they are really good musicians in every sense of the word. When you get a great rhythm section and a great guitarist that just know how to feed off of each other's hooks and energies and actually work together as a team, and enjoy doing it, and have the chops to cash the musical checks their emotions are writing, it is truely a think of beauty. These guys couldn't give a shit about putting that stuff on tape. For them it's like sex; all they care about is making sweet love with their partners (the rest of the band and the audience), not recording it for a bunch perverts in raincoats to jerk off to later.

Now some of these guys do come to me with their own compositions and side projects so they can get their more creative ya yas out too. And these are probably my most pleasurable mixing jobs of all of them because of the quality and experience of the artist means that they know that good tone comes from the musician, from the technique, from the experience, and that it's my job to capture that tone and not screw it up, not to try and create the tone artificially and after the fact.

Most of the regular studio clients I have, however, want to make a CD. The fact that they have to actually play music to get there is almost a secondary byproduct. To continue the sex analogy, these folks want to have a baby. The fact that they have to have sex with somebody to do it is almost happenstance. Sure they go through the motions and have fun and light up satisfied after the red light has gone out, but that's not really *why* they're there. They're there to plant their seed on CD. These folks are usually the ones who didn't first start playing an instrument until they got their driver's license and decided that once they learned "all the chords" (HA!) they were ready to record. These are the ones who think that tone is a matter of finding the magic bullet plugin, and that having a box full of sex toys under the bed makes up for lack of actual technique in bed.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
the quality and experience of the artist means that they know that good tone comes from the musician, from the technique, from the experience, and that it's my job to capture that tone and not screw it up, not to try and create the tone artificially and after the fact.

Most of the regular studio clients I have, however, want to make a CD. The fact that they have to actually play music to get there is almost a secondary byproduct.

that about sums it up :rolleyes:

i have a couple guys i know that are like this. (the good ones) but like you say, they're only going to need to record so often.

seems lately i'm working a lot with the other manner of client.
people that come in with bad tone and expect it to sound good on tape.
i do my best.
 
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