scottboyher
New member
This thread is really upsetting me... 
O
Orpheus
New member
.........you knew i would ask: so, what do you mean by this?
Alanfc
New member
Orpheus said:
Indeed your humor was apparent. But once things got stirred up it was too late.
I know you will develop artful ways of drilling down for the truth.
When the conversation is constructive (and efficient), it can help other people too. Surely someone like yourself who creates such beautiful music can embrace this beautiful concept.
O
Orpheus
New member
?--i'm not sure what you mean. but if you meant something akin to brutality.... well, like i said, i didn't mean it that way. i just like to find out more about this "truth." you see, it doesn't really do me much good if guitar players keep saying that they don't like this sort of music and that's why they think my music has no heart or whatever...... i mean, yes, it's their opinion.... but what i want to know is WHY..... why do these people not like this music?--they say it "goes nowhere." okay...... so maybe it does go nowhere............... but how so? what would make this music "go somewhere?" that's what i want to know, not just the readily apparent surface remarks.
i thought i was being constructive. if i don't get all the information i need, i should ask for more right?
so, that's what i'm asking.... the why. why does my music go nowhere? how could i improve it to appeal more to you acoustic folks, short of adding lyrics? or perhaps you have an example of music similar to mine, but better done? .....etc.
yes, i will keep "drilling." i don't mean to upset anyone if i do. i like carrying on intellectual arguments.
Alanfc
New member
OK Orpheus -
The plain fact is if you piss people off nobody's going to want to help you.
"Artful ways of drilling down to the truth" means nothing brutal; in your case I mean take what you need, discard what you don't need, and move on.... If you can't get what you need here, how about studying other artists in your genre that are making it. What are they doing ? Are their pieces shorter? Longer? More/fewer chord changes? Do their works all have a beginning/middle/ending? I don't know. There's a thousand other bulletin boards out there and I bet there's one related to your genre. Re-direct your energy to the footwork and the discovery. You've wasted alot of your own time here on this debate. People were trying to help you, we could have just ignored you.....
Argument and debate is vital I agree. There are other boards to debate on. This particular board is for discussion and help.
I think what ScottBoyer may have been expressing is that this thread has taken us way off the music. I will not continue on it any further.
So lets think Music---- check this link. It is to a site that will have a link to a directory full of different discussion boards/groups, under the category "Forums".
www.studiocovers.com
The plain fact is if you piss people off nobody's going to want to help you.
"Artful ways of drilling down to the truth" means nothing brutal; in your case I mean take what you need, discard what you don't need, and move on.... If you can't get what you need here, how about studying other artists in your genre that are making it. What are they doing ? Are their pieces shorter? Longer? More/fewer chord changes? Do their works all have a beginning/middle/ending? I don't know. There's a thousand other bulletin boards out there and I bet there's one related to your genre. Re-direct your energy to the footwork and the discovery. You've wasted alot of your own time here on this debate. People were trying to help you, we could have just ignored you.....
Argument and debate is vital I agree. There are other boards to debate on. This particular board is for discussion and help.
I think what ScottBoyer may have been expressing is that this thread has taken us way off the music. I will not continue on it any further.
So lets think Music---- check this link. It is to a site that will have a link to a directory full of different discussion boards/groups, under the category "Forums".
www.studiocovers.com
Last edited:
W.I.S.C.
10lbs.of sh*t in 5lb.BAG
Introduction-Great sound.Big and spacious...not much else.
Lighter and lighter-I kept waiting for the Cradle of Filth metal to start.You would do well as a black metal musician.Go evil my friend.Good production and although there's not much substance here it reamins interesting enough to keep my short attention span.
All in all,you play well and have good concepts and song structure.A little faggy for my taste.Sorry...
Lighter and lighter-I kept waiting for the Cradle of Filth metal to start.You would do well as a black metal musician.Go evil my friend.Good production and although there's not much substance here it reamins interesting enough to keep my short attention span.
All in all,you play well and have good concepts and song structure.A little faggy for my taste.Sorry...
A1A2
New member
How are you planning on selling all-sample-based CDs?
I think this is great for film music, but you said that's not what you wanted...I can't picture many people being grabbed by this type of music instantly unless it's complemented by some sort of visual elements.
Yoga sessions can really use this type of music, too. But, I honestly don't think this is something that you can play for your friends and expect them to listen from begin to end cuz it requires people to be in the right mood at the right time in the right places and etc.
Pretty good tho, I can definitely use music like this when I'm in certain moods. I don't care about what the others have said about no souls and shit, that's totally bullshit. Just listen to the piano (Embrace) alone, anyone can hear that so called soul or whatever they call it.
Al
I think this is great for film music, but you said that's not what you wanted...I can't picture many people being grabbed by this type of music instantly unless it's complemented by some sort of visual elements.
Yoga sessions can really use this type of music, too. But, I honestly don't think this is something that you can play for your friends and expect them to listen from begin to end cuz it requires people to be in the right mood at the right time in the right places and etc.
Pretty good tho, I can definitely use music like this when I'm in certain moods. I don't care about what the others have said about no souls and shit, that's totally bullshit. Just listen to the piano (Embrace) alone, anyone can hear that so called soul or whatever they call it.
Al
O
Orpheus
New member
thanks a1a2, wisc....
alanfc thinks i'm wasting time debating my music with you guys, and apprently he represents the majority..... so i'm gonna resist the temptation and keep my mouth shut this time. (but i really do want to debate/discuss........ there's plenty for me to say about every response)
wisc,
actually, a gothic chic comes over every tuesday now for me to "produce" her. it's funny cause one time she came over and my dad was walking in the door (he doesn't live with me)... and when he saw her, he jumped back literrally 1 foot!!! we both laughed. anyway.... when she heard my music, she might have thought the same that you did.... she told me she thought i could make her music great. so........... look for Falling to Dreams / Sorrow music in the future at your CD store. that CD actually will be commerically released. here's the link:
http://www.bubastis.com/XXSoRRoWXX/
click on the "Little Drummer Boy" link..... she sold 10 seconds of this song to a major movie for $10,000 / 10 seconds.
wisc,
thanks..... do you listen to new age stuff a lot? yeah, it's hard to get people to sit down and really listen. but you know what?--once in a while, someone that really does understand music will sit down..... and i would start the music. then slowly she/he will close his eyes, and just be mesmerized. that's when i know i have someone who truly understands my music. and it has happened. i just wish more often. ........but it's cool. next time i post here, i gotta get more happy faces.
but you know, i think it's the same of classical music. most people won't just sit down and listen through the whole thing. only those with a classical background and a true understanding of music theory would appreciate the beauty of a good piece, without just using it as "study music."
THERE.................. didn't argue nothing.
alanfc thinks i'm wasting time debating my music with you guys, and apprently he represents the majority..... so i'm gonna resist the temptation and keep my mouth shut this time. (but i really do want to debate/discuss........ there's plenty for me to say about every response)
wisc,
actually, a gothic chic comes over every tuesday now for me to "produce" her. it's funny cause one time she came over and my dad was walking in the door (he doesn't live with me)... and when he saw her, he jumped back literrally 1 foot!!! we both laughed. anyway.... when she heard my music, she might have thought the same that you did.... she told me she thought i could make her music great. so........... look for Falling to Dreams / Sorrow music in the future at your CD store. that CD actually will be commerically released. here's the link:
http://www.bubastis.com/XXSoRRoWXX/
click on the "Little Drummer Boy" link..... she sold 10 seconds of this song to a major movie for $10,000 / 10 seconds.
wisc,
thanks..... do you listen to new age stuff a lot? yeah, it's hard to get people to sit down and really listen. but you know what?--once in a while, someone that really does understand music will sit down..... and i would start the music. then slowly she/he will close his eyes, and just be mesmerized. that's when i know i have someone who truly understands my music. and it has happened. i just wish more often. ........but it's cool. next time i post here, i gotta get more happy faces.
but you know, i think it's the same of classical music. most people won't just sit down and listen through the whole thing. only those with a classical background and a true understanding of music theory would appreciate the beauty of a good piece, without just using it as "study music."
THERE.................. didn't argue nothing.
O
Orpheus
New member
hmm.... i see someone put a rating of 1/5 stars for this thread. i can see how popular i am here....
anyway.... one thing for sure, as i can see from the opinions so far, my music won't be "pop" ever. .....any vangelis or new age listener or even a classical listener out there care to give some comments?
i think 90% of this board seems to be comprised of rock types... a little jazz/blues..... but almost no electronica people here huh? that's very strange to me, because we all know how hot synths are selling.
well....... i will critique myself then to start the ball:
1. through experience talking with my listeners, it seems that usually people "in the know" do not appreciate my music as much as the general public. .....but comments from such musicians vary according to their background. usually people with a lot of music theory complain of a lack of complex harmonization or lack of rhythm. i guess it seems like i try hard to better my music, but don't really reach high enough towards the true masters. and i think this complaint is actually valid..... my music is sometimes too simplistic. but at the same time there is something to be said for simplicity, as we can see from the sales of Yanni.
2. sound quality is bad. yup. it is definitely a bad recording. or at least the music i've posted. some of it is tolerable.... but not good.
3. music doesn't "go anywhere." now here's a complicated observation. i'm not sure what people mean when they say this on this thread. but i will say that it is a comment i would make too, though for probably different reasons. the great classical pieces that "take you somewhere" are those that through harmonies and rhythms, drives you farther and farther up a climax, then releases. in fact, some theoreticians have even reduced all music to such an analyzation--that all music can be though of tention and release. though i disagree.... my music does involve less such masterful tensions and releases. it's a formula of dominating chords, and careful counterpoint. ...something i have yet to master. HOWEVER, when people on this board say my music "goes nowhere"...... well, i have no idea what they mean. because MOST (not all) rock.... or pop... or jazz (that i've heard).... they all do not involve much tension or release. it is a song afterall.... it tells a story through words, not a musical formula. yes, there might be some climax..... but not nearly as clear as in classical music or new age or movie soundtrack.... or whatever. hell, there's almost no dynamics at all in rock or pop... it's all compressed anyway. note that classical is not nearly as compressed as pop/rock.... and this is mostly to preserve the dynamics inherit in good classical music.
4. some samples are cheesy. yup.... i've recently acquired $30,000 worth of samples, and if i remix, i'll use these instead. should sound much better.
5. no rhythm. yup............. i suck at rhythm. it will be me downfall. but i dunno if this type of music really needs a strong rhythm to be contructive and effective. based on some of my audience's comments, i think it's okay in many situations to have no rhythm... though good rhythm might strengthen some of my pieces.
6. what do i do good?--well, i think some of my work is quite ingenius (not to sound cocky.) someone previously said that "Lighter and Lighter" is predictable, or something to that effect. and i totally disagree. that song is so perfect... i don't think i can improve it much. the increible melodies... the voices... all of it work so harmoniously. sounds great to me. and i have not heard any other musician write music like this. and that's why i think i have a chance.............................. yet, i can find no one on this board that recognizes what i feel about that piece............. so...... i dunno.
hmm............. okay......
well..... okay..... orpheus critiqued orpheus's music.
later,
orpheus
anyway.... one thing for sure, as i can see from the opinions so far, my music won't be "pop" ever. .....any vangelis or new age listener or even a classical listener out there care to give some comments?
i think 90% of this board seems to be comprised of rock types... a little jazz/blues..... but almost no electronica people here huh? that's very strange to me, because we all know how hot synths are selling.
well....... i will critique myself then to start the ball:
1. through experience talking with my listeners, it seems that usually people "in the know" do not appreciate my music as much as the general public. .....but comments from such musicians vary according to their background. usually people with a lot of music theory complain of a lack of complex harmonization or lack of rhythm. i guess it seems like i try hard to better my music, but don't really reach high enough towards the true masters. and i think this complaint is actually valid..... my music is sometimes too simplistic. but at the same time there is something to be said for simplicity, as we can see from the sales of Yanni.
2. sound quality is bad. yup. it is definitely a bad recording. or at least the music i've posted. some of it is tolerable.... but not good.
3. music doesn't "go anywhere." now here's a complicated observation. i'm not sure what people mean when they say this on this thread. but i will say that it is a comment i would make too, though for probably different reasons. the great classical pieces that "take you somewhere" are those that through harmonies and rhythms, drives you farther and farther up a climax, then releases. in fact, some theoreticians have even reduced all music to such an analyzation--that all music can be though of tention and release. though i disagree.... my music does involve less such masterful tensions and releases. it's a formula of dominating chords, and careful counterpoint. ...something i have yet to master. HOWEVER, when people on this board say my music "goes nowhere"...... well, i have no idea what they mean. because MOST (not all) rock.... or pop... or jazz (that i've heard).... they all do not involve much tension or release. it is a song afterall.... it tells a story through words, not a musical formula. yes, there might be some climax..... but not nearly as clear as in classical music or new age or movie soundtrack.... or whatever. hell, there's almost no dynamics at all in rock or pop... it's all compressed anyway. note that classical is not nearly as compressed as pop/rock.... and this is mostly to preserve the dynamics inherit in good classical music.
4. some samples are cheesy. yup.... i've recently acquired $30,000 worth of samples, and if i remix, i'll use these instead. should sound much better.
5. no rhythm. yup............. i suck at rhythm. it will be me downfall. but i dunno if this type of music really needs a strong rhythm to be contructive and effective. based on some of my audience's comments, i think it's okay in many situations to have no rhythm... though good rhythm might strengthen some of my pieces.
6. what do i do good?--well, i think some of my work is quite ingenius (not to sound cocky.) someone previously said that "Lighter and Lighter" is predictable, or something to that effect. and i totally disagree. that song is so perfect... i don't think i can improve it much. the increible melodies... the voices... all of it work so harmoniously. sounds great to me. and i have not heard any other musician write music like this. and that's why i think i have a chance.............................. yet, i can find no one on this board that recognizes what i feel about that piece............. so...... i dunno.
hmm............. okay......
well..... okay..... orpheus critiqued orpheus's music.
later,
orpheus
Alanfc
New member
Orpheus-
One last thing-
Don't forget to check this link to Studio Covers.com to find some more Bulletin boards. I really think number of boards' links on the site will satisfy
http://www.studiocovers.com/forums.htm
One last thing-
Don't forget to check this link to Studio Covers.com to find some more Bulletin boards. I really think number of boards' links on the site will satisfy
http://www.studiocovers.com/forums.htm
O
Orpheus
New member
yeah... thanks man. i'll definitely look into it later.
but i haven't given up hope here yet! ...after all, this is my home recording, which is what this board is all about. i listened to much of the stuff on this mp3 mixing section, and i loved hearing all the different types of music. so much better than buying the usual professional CD. a lot of musicians here are very creative and talented. and there's something special about amateur music. .....so, this is my offering. i'm still waiting for some more people who are more into classical and new age.... you know, the instrumental type stuff.
besides, this music..... like i mentioned before, i've been recording a gothic chick ... and another pop singer asked me to produce her too.... so i gotta learn up on these types of recordings... and there's a wealth of information on these boards. this place would be even greater if there were more instrumentalists though....
but i haven't given up hope here yet!
...after all, this is my home recording, which is what this board is all about. i listened to much of the stuff on this mp3 mixing section, and i loved hearing all the different types of music. so much better than buying the usual professional CD. a lot of musicians here are very creative and talented. and there's something special about amateur music. .....so, this is my offering. i'm still waiting for some more people who are more into classical and new age.... you know, the instrumental type stuff.besides, this music..... like i mentioned before, i've been recording a gothic chick ... and another pop singer asked me to produce her too.... so i gotta learn up on these types of recordings... and there's a wealth of information on these boards. this place would be even greater if there were more instrumentalists though....
B.SABBATH
New member
listening to lighter and lighter.. I like stuff like this.. good sounds.. I'm getting ready to post an instrumental with similar sounds.. nice piano playing.. was the piano programmed?
Innovations
New member
Fundamentally Orpheus you need to come to grips with your place in the musical universe.
Your music is very good New Age music.
Most musicians think Vangelis is crap. Does Vangelis care? No, I think he cares that his fans enjoy his albums and that they put money in his bank account so he doesn't have to get a real job.
99.99 percent I imagine of those Vangelis albums are used to make commuting seem less stressfull or to play while meditating or as background music for a romantic dinner. Does Vangelis care? If he does he no doubt is glad that his music is making peoples' days nicer. But mostly I think he is glad that he does not have to gig in crappy clubs for a few bucks a set.
Music serves a purpose. Some is for celebrating, some is for dancing, some is for laughing, some is for marching, some for relaxing. Eine Kline Nachmusic may be played in concert halls now but it was originally intended as background music while friends and guest sat around and, yes, talked.
Could you imagine Weird Al screaming "Why are you guys laughing rather than appreciating all the hard work that went into this!" (Actually I could imagine him saying that, but it too would be a joke.)
So once you come to grips with your niche in the musical ecosystem you can figure how to survive in it. Frankly the idea of gift baskets of relaxation/romantic items with a CD included is monster and potentially extra profitable (since you can markup all the other stuff too) and you can use it to get buyers to your web site.
And it is a whole lot easier to go to Windham Hill and say 'hey I sold 5000 albums last year as an independent...think you'd be interested?' than 'Please, please, please listen to my demo!'
Your music is very good New Age music.
Most musicians think Vangelis is crap. Does Vangelis care? No, I think he cares that his fans enjoy his albums and that they put money in his bank account so he doesn't have to get a real job.
99.99 percent I imagine of those Vangelis albums are used to make commuting seem less stressfull or to play while meditating or as background music for a romantic dinner. Does Vangelis care? If he does he no doubt is glad that his music is making peoples' days nicer. But mostly I think he is glad that he does not have to gig in crappy clubs for a few bucks a set.
Music serves a purpose. Some is for celebrating, some is for dancing, some is for laughing, some is for marching, some for relaxing. Eine Kline Nachmusic may be played in concert halls now but it was originally intended as background music while friends and guest sat around and, yes, talked.
Could you imagine Weird Al screaming "Why are you guys laughing rather than appreciating all the hard work that went into this!" (Actually I could imagine him saying that, but it too would be a joke.)
So once you come to grips with your niche in the musical ecosystem you can figure how to survive in it. Frankly the idea of gift baskets of relaxation/romantic items with a CD included is monster and potentially extra profitable (since you can markup all the other stuff too) and you can use it to get buyers to your web site.
And it is a whole lot easier to go to Windham Hill and say 'hey I sold 5000 albums last year as an independent...think you'd be interested?' than 'Please, please, please listen to my demo!'
SLuiCe
New member
Well said, Innovations.
Pedullist
Stop it, I can't breathe
Well said, SLuiCe...
O
Orpheus
New member
i understand what you mean..... and you probably are pretty accurate.
how can i command the same respect for my music as say the classical composers? afterall, people go their concerts and just sit there!... i can't think i'm anything more boring than a classical concert. yet, people can sit there and enjoy the music. that's what i want..... the same respect. sometimes when i get a good CD, i too just ignore everything around me, and just sit in my seat, listening and enjoying the music, all the while analyzing and learning. ............how can i bring my music to that level?
how can i command the same respect for my music as say the classical composers? afterall, people go their concerts and just sit there!... i can't think i'm anything more boring than a classical concert. yet, people can sit there and enjoy the music. that's what i want..... the same respect. sometimes when i get a good CD, i too just ignore everything around me, and just sit in my seat, listening and enjoying the music, all the while analyzing and learning. ............how can i bring my music to that level?
WATYF
...happier than you.
WATYF
...happier than you.
btw.. I listened to Embrace again... and while I did hear a smidgen of distortion (which may have just been artifacts in the mp3) I found it to be a good New Age piece. It would have been more enjoyable if the pan flutes had been real (I prefer acoustic tones over digital ones)... but it was still good, nonetheless.
I can't believe it's almost 10 minutes long.
you're gonna give SLuiCe a run for his money in the "longest freaking song ever posted in the clinic" competition.
(oops... there's that "C" word again.
)
WATYF
I can't believe it's almost 10 minutes long.
you're gonna give SLuiCe a run for his money in the "longest freaking song ever posted in the clinic" competition.
(oops... there's that "C" word again.
)WATYF
Innovations
New member
For one thing you will listen to music much more closely that anybody because it is something you care intensely about.Orpheus said:
But in all honesty you may need to choose between staying true to the music you like making and making an impression on people. It is odd, for the average jazz or rock, or rap star 'selling out' means making your stuff more bland and less edgy. For you selling out may mean exactly the opposite.
Your music, actually most new age music, is intended to rest gently and comfortably on your mind. That is not necessarily bad. But it is also not memorable.
In order to make an impression you have to make an impact. You need to have a memorable melody or a rythm that makes you want to move, or a stirring sound or moving lyrics or intricate counterpoint. This is not specific to any single genre or period of music. I can draw examples from jazz, classical, blues, rock, whatever. The good stuff is the stuff you wouldn't mind singing or at least humming along with. It is the stuff you can remember at least a bit of the song the next day.