Real drums - snare in the overhead - help!!

[nomadx]

Hi all-
Trying to get a good snare sound out of the drum tracks and I just can't seem to get the snare where I want it. If I could simply EQ the snare by itself, it would be fine. However, there is too much snare in the overhead and I can't seem to get the "in your face" snap I want on the snare. If the OH mic had less snare than cymbals, I could use a gate to leave the cymbals. Problem is when I get the cymbals sounding right, the snare is too bright. I did try to trigger a midi snare with the snare and it just won't catch the elegant snare rolls the drummers doing very well so I don't think that's an option. Any tips??

Thanks, all!!

 

[Greg_L]

Wow, I've never had too much snare in my overheads. Weird problem to have!

 

[CMB Studios]

Hi all-
Trying to get a good snare sound out of the drum tracks and I just can't seem to get the snare where I want it. If I could simply EQ the snare by itself, it would be fine. However, there is too much snare in the overhead and I can't seem to get the "in your face" snap I want on the snare. If the OH mic had less snare than cymbals, I could use a gate to leave the cymbals. Problem is when I get the cymbals sounding right, the snare is too bright. I did try to trigger a midi snare with the snare and it just won't catch the elegant snare rolls the drummers doing very well so I don't think that's an option. Any tips??

Thanks, all!!

could we get some more information on this? how many mics? just 2 overheads? no close micing? positions of overheads?

 

[nomadx]

We're not talking about professional tracking here. I'm sure if it were, a lot of snare in the OH would be fine. Each drum had an sm57 (close) pointing down on it and there is a single condenser as the OH behind the drummer to his left a bit; facing down about 30 degrees.

 

[Dogbreath]

Move the OH out front or over toward the floor tom a bit.
?

 

[mixsit]

Compression? Either on the snare track, o/h's (or both.
'In your face' suggests that too me anyway.
And the tone' will be the sum of both, + the out & in phase frequency combinations (distance combo') +/- their relative blend.
There's a whole palate to play with.

Ooops. And less we forget - tuning/how it's hit

 

[nomadx]

Thanks. I may be able to influence future tracking, but I have to deal with this one as is. I've tried comp/multi-band comp and EQ for the sum of the OH and snare track to no avail. I can get a solid snare; it's just not the timbre I was hoping for. Gotta live with things sometimes!

 

[Greg_L]

it's just not the timbre I was hoping for.

Ahhh, tuning problem. So it's not the overheads or mic placement, it's just tuned wrong maybe?

Let's hear what you got. Maybe someone can make some suggestions.

 

[nomadx]

At work at the moment. Once I get home, I'll post a sample. Thanks, guys!

 

[CMB Studios]

We're not talking about professional tracking here. I'm sure if it were, a lot of snare in the OH would be fine. Each drum had an sm57 (close) pointing down on it and there is a single condenser as the OH behind the drummer to his left a bit; facing down about 30 degrees.

well first off, if i may, if you have enough inputs to close mic then why are you using only 1 OH? you'd get better results if you dual purposed a pair of toms in 1 mic and used that saved input for another OH.

If you're favoring the snare side (im guessing for highhat pickup) then you will have a lot more snare than anything else thus resulting in your problem. What i would do, if i were you, is go the classic method of 2 mic OH for stereo capturing and use the guidelines of 2-3 feet above cymbals, 3-4 foot spacing and in the middle of the depth of the kit... This method will certainly pick up more cymbal for you.

 

[nomadx]

well first off, if i may, if you have enough inputs to close mic then why are you using only 1 OH? you'd get better results if you dual purposed a pair of toms in 1 mic and used that saved input for another OH.

If you're favoring the snare side (im guessing for highhat pickup) then you will have a lot more snare than anything else thus resulting in your problem. What i would do, if i were you, is go the classic method of 2 mic OH for stereo capturing and use the guidelines of 2-3 feet above cymbals, 3-4 foot spacing and in the middle of the depth of the kit... This method will certainly pick up more cymbal for you.

That's solid advice, CMB. Thanks. Unfortunately, I have more mixing experience than I do tracking. Not much in either!! If I could only quit my day job!!

I have a tough time making tracking/mixing suggestions to the guys I play with (head-strong w/ opinions), so I have a lot of respect for guys that can engineer for perfect strangers and gain their trust to make decisions.

 

[CMB Studios]

That's solid advice, CMB. Thanks. Unfortunately, I have more mixing experience than I do tracking. Not much in either!! If I could only quit my day job!!

I have a tough time making tracking/mixing suggestions to the guys I play with (head-strong w/ opinions), so I have a lot of respect for guys that can engineer for perfect strangers and gain their trust to make decisions.

well its all about selling yourself, play your opponent not your hand. if your going to be mixing then you need to take responsibility for tracking and then mix properly... then they will listen

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Maybe tell the drummer the truth: that's how it sounds because that's how it's tuned and played. A well tuned and played kit will sound balanced on its own, to the degree that you could capture it with one mic.

That said, it might be interesting to nudge the snare track 3-4ms to the right and try flipping the polarity.

 

[nomadx]

well its all about selling yourself, play your opponent not your hand. if your going to be mixing then you need to take responsibility for tracking and then mix properly... then they will listen

Probably has to do with the fact they've known me as a singer and not someone who is now just passed "noob" in mixing.

Maybe tell the drummer the truth: that's how it sounds because that's how it's tuned and played. A well tuned and played kit will sound balanced on its own, to the degree that you could capture it with one mic.

That said, it might be interesting to nudge the snare track 3-4ms to the right and try flipping the polarity.

If he fusses in the end, that's exactly what I'll tell him.

The nudge technique sounds interesting. I'll give that a go. Thanks much.

 

[nomadx]

Nudging and flipping polarity helped some, but did not resolve. Just goes to show; tracking is the most important part. I just can't get there from here and I'm probably expecting too much from the recording. I'm going to try and talk them into tracking again. I know nothing about drum tuning, but I'm sure that's part of my problem. He's a great drummer, but just never really learned that part. Thanks for all of your help, guys.

 

[Simman]

Hi all-
Trying to get a good snare sound out of the drum tracks and I just can't seem to get the snare where I want it. If I could simply EQ the snare by itself, it would be fine. However, there is too much snare in the overhead and I can't seem to get the "in your face" snap I want on the snare. If the OH mic had less snare than cymbals, I could use a gate to leave the cymbals. Problem is when I get the cymbals sounding right, the snare is too bright. I did try to trigger a midi snare with the snare and it just won't catch the elegant snare rolls the drummers doing very well so I don't think that's an option. Any tips??

Thanks, all!!

What micing technique are you using? The overall sound of the drums should come from the overheads, IMO. If any perticular part of the kit jumps out in the OHs then I'm going with poor mic placement. I will say that I've switched my snare mic to a telefunken M80...simply awesome.

 

[CMB Studios]

What micing technique are you using? The overall sound of the drums should come from the overheads, IMO. If any perticular part of the kit jumps out in the OHs then I'm going with poor mic placement. I will say that I've switched my snare mic to a telefunken M80...simply awesome.

read the whole thread...

 

[dug dog]

How 'bout this?

Duplicate your overhead track(s). In your editor, cut away anything that isn't a snare hit. Reverse the polarity and adjust the volume of the inverted tracks accordingly. Say bye bye to snare in the overheads.

I played with this for a couple of minutes and I know it works. The question is, how well? You'll likely need to add fades to the beginning and ending of every snare hit in your duped track and it may or may not work with intricate snare rolls, but it's worth a go.

 

[stevieg11]

Try compressing the OH track with a fast attack and release, side-chained from the snare track. It will duck the snare out of the OH leaving the snare close-mic to fill in the sound.

 

[dug dog]

Try compressing the OH track with a fast attack and release, side-chained from the snare track. It will duck the snare out of the OH leaving the snare close-mic to fill in the sound.

Much simpler than my suggestion.