Re-Post from Newbie forum…Please Advise.

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iangerber

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Ok, I'm trying to get a studio together. I want to do 8 tracks analog. I run Logic off of my IMac and I plan on bouncing the tape down to it, but I have wanted to record to 8 tracks of tape since I have wanted to record…so for the last 15 years. I'm not getting talked out of it.

First, if I can find a Tascam 388, I think I would do well with that unit. It seems that those are getting pretty classic and hard to find. Any insight where to pick one up would be fantastic.

If I can't nail one of those down, I want an 8 track reel to reel. I have a board that will work great already. In fact, its the tascam 388 without the recorder.


I have a handle on the room and making it sound right. I have quality instruments and amplifiers. I know what mics I'm going to get. I live and breath "Good In, Good Out" so I don't have to worry about tweaking the tracks, just mixing them down with minimal eq. I want to go as straight to tape as possible. With that said...

What I really need to know is….
What kind of outboard gear I would need to make something like a Tascam 38 sound nice and clean. I don't want to get into effects too much. I know I'll need a reverb and a compressor and any suggestions for those are welcome…even though I'm going to get a real reverb unit, not a digital one.

I don't really understand the noise suppressing units and I haven't grapsed biasing.

Please advise. Thank You.
 
Analogue reverb is a tricky beast. You basically have three options: a spring, a plate or a dedicated reverb chamber (i.e. an actual room). Plate is the best but they're expensive, bulky and heavy. Spring doesn't sound very good, but it will work. Sometimes I have wondered if I should sell mine on and get a decent digital reverb, but the good ones are rather expensive...

Have you considered the TSR-8, by the way? The noise-reduction is built-in and works beautifully. The TSR-8 was basically positioned against digital recorders so they spent a lot of effort making it sound clean to the point at which some people spurn it because they want more tape colouration. It does only have the one sound head (the 38 has two) and this makes it a bitch to align (which to tell the truth, I never have done that on mine).
The tape transport is excellent though, and it has microprocessor-controlled punch-in which is dead useful if you're doing solo recordings. With the right kind of sync unit you can also make it slave to another deck, or to the computer, which the 38 can't do. But I digress.

The part which you may not have considered is input switching on the recorder. You have 8 inputs, if you're overdubbing things one at a time you'll either want a patchbay, or a sub-mixer and a splitter cable. Either of these will make your life a lot easier, otherwise you'll be constantly plugging and unplugging things at the back of the recorder, which is liable to wear out the sockets.

Oh yeah, noise reduction and suppression are two different things. Suppression I'd call a gate, which basically silences the channel until a certain volume level comes through, and that can help cut down hiss from idle channels etc.
Noise reduction, like DBX or Dolby (the TASCAM machines usually use DBX) is a two-ended process. You enable it when recording and it does a few companding tricks when the signal is recorded. To play it back, you have to run it back through the DBX decoder or the result will be thin and very noisy.
On the TSR-8 this amounts to remembering to switch DBX on and off when you power the machine up - on the 38 you have to have external DBX units like the DX4D (two of them).

I hope that helps you...
 
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Yeah analog reverberation is going to be tricky, realistically unless you want to turn your basement into a chamber, you're either looking at spring or plates (which are bulky and expensive as mentioned), so more realistically, spring reverbs which are kinda one-trick ponies (not that it isn't a good trick but...) I think you will find that even less costly digital reverbs will be more interesting sounding than plug-ins, however. TC Electronic (cleaner sounding) and Kurzweil (more lush sounding) make good lower cost units that represent especially good values on the used market.

If you have a decent mixer, I wouldn't be looking into a 388. I know they have lots of fans here and they're an interesting package but, really, if you don't need the mixer than go for at least a 1/2" 8-track. Especially if you're after cleaner images (and more punch), I can't stress the additional head real-estate enough, and a machine that lets you hit the tape at least at +6, even better +9 though you're getting into pro machine territory for the latter.

I agree you might consider a simple patch bay. It's some extra cabling and connections points to be sure, but it's a lot more convenient and it's a lot easier to replace a patch bay when the connectors start to get knackered.

What mics have you settled on?
 
These have been the most informational posts that anyone has ever responded to my inquiries. Many Thanks.

I am REALLY interested and have the space to turn a room into a reverb unit. It was my original plan. At this point, I consider reverb one less piece of gear to buy. I find using the room more challenging, productive, and creative. Thanks for the other recos on the an eight track reel unit.
 
iangerber said:
These have been the most informational posts that anyone has ever responded to my inquiries. Many Thanks.

I am REALLY interested and have the space to turn a room into a reverb unit. It was my original plan. At this point, I consider reverb one less piece of gear to buy. I find using the room more challenging, productive, and creative. Thanks for the other recos on the an eight track reel unit.
Click to expand...

One more note on reverb (or outboard for that matter) if you have the time and inclination you can build a lot yourself. The PAIA Spring Reverb kit is actually pretty good for a spring based unit, it uses two sets of springs and you have to mod the way they are wired. Supposedly this does some kind of phase cancellation to reduce the boingy and sproingy typical of springs. Also, I've not attempted htis, but a plate is somehting that can be DIY, if you have the skills and time although I'm not sure how much they go for anyway, there are a lot of designs out there. Over simplyfying it, you stick a transducer onto a thin sheet of steel which is under high tension and a pickup on the same sheet. Building and "tuning" the tension is a big part of it.
 
" I'm not getting talked out of it"

Haha love it.

The zerotronics is basicly a version of the PAIA reverb.
His needs make up gain. I thing the paia might need it also?
Room verb is cool. I use a tiled bath or you can put a mic in a metal can or whatever.
Or get a tape echo or space echo.
diy plate is not easy to just throw together.
Some folks just give up and go with a digital multi effects unit.
Way easier.
which mixer do you have?
 
tascam 308

I picked it up for 75 bucks from the guy I'm sharing studio space with. Between us we have more than enough stuff for great digital recording…but I'm being stubborn with the analog and want to pursue it. The board he has, and I'm not sure what it is, is incredible. Its 24 tracks and came out of a real studio. What I'm saying is that i have access to a bigger board, but don't see the point if I only have eight tracks.
 
zorf said:
" I'm not getting talked out of it"

Haha love it.

The zerotronics is basicly a version of the PAIA reverb.
His needs make up gain. I thing the paia might need it also?
Click to expand...

The PAIA unit has a drive and recovery amp, and works fine on an aux buss, or an echo send. I just got the circuit board alone, a hundred years ago, when they used to do that, and used some springs I had laying around paying no mind to spring impedance, did the spring hack w/o shielded cable, generally did a pretty half assed job of it, and then found a 2U chassis with a blank front panel (some arcnet hub or something) and stuck the whole thing in there.

It does sound pretty "big"

(I get a bit of hum from the unit, I'm sure from my lousy build, but in a mix it isn't really noticeable. I'm pretty sure the hum is RFI, as neither the Ebtech hum eliminator (i.e. ground loop) or running off batteries +/- 9v in this case didn't make a difference. I do run it on +/- 15v and higher would probably be OK too.)
 
Hey Blue Jinn,
i want to hear more about the paia reverb, but dont want to hijack the this thread.
Start a new thread, or pm me?
thanks
 
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