Question regarding the levels of the lead vocal..??

[brandywine]

ok..I pretty much know how to work the lead vocals to get a good sound off of them BUT my problem is at the end of it , when I do a test & raise the total track , the vocals continue to get louder as you raise the track ? Now from research I think it has something to do with "limiting" (brick wall limiting..??)But I dont really know how to do that..or the way I'm doing it , is not working very well.. can anyone help me out with...

1: tell me the program/plugin you use and #2 : if you have some starting point settings(presets) that can help me get started , that would be excellent ..

Please ..I NEED the numbers & the program you do it with..
By the way this is for rap vocals and I usually bring them in at -10-15 running through my presonus blue tube..
no compression til I get it in the computer & then its only slight..
I record into my Mia soundcard from my 14 track mixer..I use Cool edit , sometimes cubase & wavelab..

thanks for the help in advance..

 

[brandywine]

nobody??

is this a stupid question?
all I wanna know is what is it that holds back the vocal level when you raise the track very loud..and a start point, numberwise (preset) to get me outta the dark.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

First off.... if I understand your question correctly, you want to tame the dynamics of a vocal.... you generally use a compressor for this (although there's nothing wrong with riding the faders by hand...) There are no "presets" that will work in all situtations but start with setting your ratio at 3:1, if you have an "auto" mode for attack/release set that to "on" (just while you're getting your feet wet with even understanding compression).... now start with the threshold at zero, turn it counter-clockwise until the compressor meter show 2-4dB of compression at the loudest point that your vocal track is....

That's a very rough "jumping point" -- you've got to play all the settings yourself to tailor it for the context of the track.

 

[regebro]

Stupid questions? No. But confusing.

ok..I pretty much know how to work the lead vocals to get a good sound off of them BUT my problem is at the end of it , when I do a test & raise the total track , the vocals continue to get louder as you raise the track ?

The total volume inclused the vocals. Hence, if you increase the total volume, the vocals will increase too.

all I wanna know is what is it that holds back the vocal level when you raise the track very loud..

You set the level of the vocals in the mixer.


Now, somehow I suspect that these answers are not what you want, but because I don't really understand what you want, I just answered what you said. Which probably aint helpful. But maybe it can help you to explain the problem better.

 

[malcolm123]

Give him a article Bruce. LOL


Malcolm

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Give him a article Bruce. LOL


Malcolm

Oh yeah! Try this.... (also includes an excellent link to Shailat's compression article)

Mixing 101

 

[malcolm123]

Correct me if im wrong,

But if the overall vocal track ( by itself) is not fluctuating in volume levels where a little compression could be applied to smooth the vocal track out,,,,, Wouldnt you just turn that track's volume down?

Maybe he is talking about controlling the vox volume in post processing? If so, thats a whole nutha topic.

Or maybe everything else is so spaced out,, that the lead vox has it's own little nestegg.


Malcolm

 

[KingstonRock]

i think what he's trying to say is, when you peak limit the final mix, how do you keep the relative levels of the different tracks the same?

 

[sonicpaint]

I agree with BlueBear.

I agree with Blue Bearand Malcolm. You should read some articles on compression to get a better grasp of how to apply it to contol those vocals. There is tons of info on compression on the net so go to it dude!

If you would prefer to cut corners(I don't recommed this) you could just limit the vocal using a limiter in CoolEdit Pro or any of the other programs you use to do your tracking. Use fast attacks and fast releases (though slower then the attack) while adding gain and your good to go.

Hope this helps you though you should learn about compression. It's a great tool when used to control gain and smoothen out tracks. You'll be glad you learnt how later down the road.

sonicpaint

 

[regebro]

i think what he's trying to say is, when you peak limit the final mix, how do you keep the relative levels of the different tracks the same?

That may indeed be what he is saying. And it's a non-sensical question, because peak-limiting won't change the relative levels of the tracks (unless you are using multi-band compression/limiting, but if this makes the mix sound strange, don't use it! )

 

[willovercome]

i"ve noticed this too. when i increase the volume of the mix, the relative levels change too. i've just learned to cmpensate for my own ineptitude by lowering the vocals in the mix. then when i throw the limiter on the master they pop out and end up in the right place.

 

[regebro]

i"ve noticed this too. when i increase the volume of the mix, the relative levels change too.

Well, no they don't. But what you can hear, and how you hear it, change both with listening levels, and also, if you compress things heavily, it can bring out or push back different instruments, dependning on what level they are and when they play.

For example, if you are compressing a mix that has a loud 4/4 kick, it can typically bring down the volume of that kick. And if you then have a guitar doing the back beat, that guitar will sound louder.

This is not realy changing the relative levels of tracks. It's changing the relative levels of different times, which is what a compressor does, and this effect shoul dbe very subtle unless you are compressing so much that you get pumping.

And the solution is the same: If one track sounds too loud, then lower it!

It really isn't harder than that. And you need to listen to mixes in different volume levels to make sure thay sound OK in all of them.

If you are compressing a final mix, where you can't change the mix levels, and it starts sounding like shit when you increase the compression, then compress less!


We still have no real info on what is brandywines situation though, since he/she hasn't responded for a while.

 

[KingstonRock]

peak-limiting won't change the relative levels of the tracks

well if you overuse peak limiting you will lose most percussion sounds pretty quickly, but as regebro said if this happens, use less!

 

[crosstudio]

peak limiting does change the mix. how can it not. you are changing the dynamics of the mix when you clip those transients.

think of it in terms of an individual snare sound. if you limit the early part of the snare sound you change the proportion of how much snare snap you hear and how much snare body you hear.

now think in terms of the whole mix sound. if you limit the early part of the sound you change the proportion of how much sizzle you hear, and how much bass and mid-range you hear.

that's also why you don't want to use a fast compressor attack setting on bass and kick, because you'll make them sound dull.