Project studio: getting it right

[Aurora]

Hey, I'm currently planning to build (with the help of my band) a room-within-a-room practice space and project studio in the basement of our house, and I wanted to check my plan with some of the veterans in this forum:

13' X 18' space, hopefully 11 1/2' x 16 1/2' interior dimensions, 7 1/2' ceilings (low, I know, but nothing can be done). The floor is concrete, we'll probably carpet it.

The plan is, from outside wall to inside: 5/8" drywall; special frame with good insulation; 1/4" drywall on the inside, covered by a material called "homosote" or something like that (acoustile stuff, but supposedly better) for the innermost layer.

The frame would look like this:
______________________________________
I_I I_I I_I I_I
_ _ _ _
_____I_I_______I_I________I_I________I_I__

with 2x6's for the top and sides (frame) and 2x4's for the studs.

And with insulation:
What kind is best for a project like this (low budget here, guys), and does one put insulation on both sides of the frame above, or just one to allow for dead air space? Or one person suggested we thread it through the beams horizontally, but that sounds maybe not so good.

Ok, hope that wasn't too confusing and thanks for sticking with me. Any suggestions? Should that be enough not to piss off neighbors? Anything that would be less expensive?

Rian

 

[Aurora]

crap!

Ok, I tried to illustrate the frame, but something screwed up when I posted. It's basically a sawtooth pattern with the 2x4's screwed in alternatingly on the far and near side of the wall, about 16" away from each other. Confusing, I know, but maybe some of you know what I'm talking about, I think it's kind of standard, maybe.

Ok, reply away!

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Howdy, say, this is in a basement. With low ceiling. How high above the ground is the ceiling of the basement. You might be ovekilling on the walls. At least in my mind a basement is below ground. That is in your favor if thats the case. Also, it seems as though, if indeed the basement is below ground, the walls of the basement would be concrete. As usually this is the footing(foundation) for the exterior walls above. And the
wall plate, is fastened to this basement wall/foundation above ground. When you look at a wall in the basement, is it sheetrock, or plaster, or concrete? It may even be concrete block with furring and sheet rock. Once we know what your dealing with in reality, the help given is more relevant, and without guess's. At this point, if the above statements are true, then it is your cieling that will become the soundproofing issue. Many factors enter into the soundproofing equasion. And I'm certainly am not the expert here. I just try to illicit info to facilitate the design process.
There are people here who do know exactly what to do for each detail of a project. But to help you they must have info. Of course, I'm a detailer, so I tend to stick in my opinions that require more detailed information. Hope this helps to the next decisions.
fitz

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Howdy, me again. I know exactly what homosote is. I don't think you want this as a finish substrate. Where exactly were you going to use this. Have you seen this product?
It is like compressed grey paper. 1/2 in thick. This is a confusing material for this application. Some call this soundboard, although it is not, some call it by another name I can't remember. We used it for fabic covered pads in showcase lines. And I suppose you could do that over sheetrock. Its like a bullitin board material. In fact, we use it for exactly that. But as a finish wall, unless you plan on adding some kind of acoustical treatment over it, you can't use it like sheetrock. Taping and joint compound will not work well on this. Painting is one thiing. Its highly absorbant, and would indeed have absorbant qualitys sonicly speaking. I don't know how well as I've never seen this specified as a wall shiething material. Especially in a studio. I don't think it has sound proofing qualitys at all. Its very easily broken, by impact. If anything I would think it would be used BEHIND a layer of 5/8" sheetrock. Sound transmittance is impeded by layers of different mass. And mass, is the only way to stop sound. Hence the question as to the actual wall material in the "basement" As soon as you can answer the questions in the first reply, maybe I can help define what it is you need. However, there are many people here who are far more qualified to give definitive answers to your questions, but they still need accurate information to determine the answers. Hope that makes sense, and helps.
fitz

 

[Aurora]

here's the scoop-

The walls are, unfortunately, above ground and the only concrete surface is the floor. It is more of a "downstairs floor" than a basement by your definition. so i think that building a room within a room is entirely necessary, seeing as there are neighbors ten feet away from the outside wall. And yes, the ceiling will be a huge pain in the ass. Any sugestions for a super-thin ceiling that will block out as much sound as possible?

As for the homosote, it's merely for deadening the room and absorbing sound. The two layers of sheetrock and insulation in the middle will, I think, do the majority of the sound "blocking." And the homosote will be affixed to the inner layer of drywall, so there will be some re-enforcement there; it won't be directly applied to the studs. But is there a material that is better or less expensive that I should know about? looks are not really an issue either, we just want the room pretty dead.

And about the insulation, are there any specific brands or types of insulation that are ideal?

Thanks a lot for the help.

R

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

thats what I figured

Howdy, I figured you were taliking about a downstairs room, not an actual basement, although, IT IS Ok. Now we got the scoop. Have you looked at John Sayers SAE site? Probably, but in case you haven't, do. Heres the link below. Have you gone into the archives? There have been a thousand queries regarding the same thing. Of course, every project has its own little quirks huh! Any sliding glass doors? Ceilings at 7'6" huh! Those are always tough. But you do the best you can with what you got, right. Ok, as to the construction, are the existing walls already sheetrocked? I assume you play rock? Loud? Neighbors 10' away. Oh boy. Ok, like I said, I am not the resident guru here, I can help, but I by no means am an expert. Ok, starting with the walls. I would say, if they are already sheetrocked, you have a variety of solutions, depending on how much you spend, vs, how much transmission loss, you really need to obtain. Thats the bottom line. IF absolute soundproof is what your after, you HAVE to pay attention to details. As one member put it, a 1/64th" hole can negate ALL your efforts to eliminate leakage. But thats not all. The next villian is transferrance through the ceiling structure, to the exterior walls. That the tough one. There are 3 or 4 solutions to this on johns site, including adding sheetrock in the joist cavities, on the underside of the floor above. From there, I would think the insulation, then 5/8" sheetrock on resiliant channel. This helps decouple the sheithing from the structure. But air ducts, interior loadbearing walls, pipes, stairs and anything else that penetrates the ceiling has to be delt with accordingly, or your wasting your time and money. In this instance, structural vibration is your worst enemy. Room in a room is THE solution.
However, in this case, it is not possible, as a floating ceiling is part of a room in room type solution, and you can't do this, so in my mind it negates the expense and time it takes to do this. I would suggest resiliant channel on the walls, with 1 layer, 1/2" sheetrock fastend with screws to the resiliant channel(or rubber sheetblock from acoustic companys if you can afford it,(see Auralux's web site). Then 1/2" soundboard, or homosote glued to the sheetrock, then another 5/8" sheetrock glued, or screwed through to the RC. Mass and decoupling are the only things that will help you in this situation. At least in my estimation of what your up against here. And even then, you might be able to hear it a little outside, if your caulking skills are not up to par. Every single joint(including structural and door jambs, and the sheetrock joints itself must be caulked, in order to achieve this level of soundproofing so close to a neighbor. Any exterior doors (especially facing neighbors house) must be at the same ability to negate transmission(this is called an STC rating) as the rest of the project or your weak link will negate everything else. Double the doors if necessary. Block off windows. But this all depends on your neighbors level of tolerance. Zero tolerance means absolute sound proofing, which translates into how much sound transmission loss in db are you trying to achieve. If you practice at concert levels, as some bands I've had the displeasure of hearing do then I would suggest a different approach. Like a different location (just kiddin!!)
I lived in the exact type of situation myself, and I know from experience, that neighbors and loud rock music do not mix. Unless they are fans. AGAIN, I am not the expert here, and maybe they can throw some better qualified light on this one. And I am certainly not trying to rain on your parade here. But it is a tough one. At least in my experience. Although doable. You really need to check on some things, in order to determine all the ramifications. Ok, I've stuck my foot in my mouth about as far as I dare for now. Let the pros take it from here, and if I've given any info that is incorrect, I'm sure I'll hear about it. Oh, one other thing, absolute soundproof means absolute airproof, and that brings up the next problem. HVAC. I won't go there. Too many others to solve first. Ok, John, knightfly, frederic, and the rest of the gurus, how about a call on this one. I've done as much as my experience allows. Please put the flamethrowers on low though, ok. http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html
fitz