Production Quality, What's The Big Deal?

[fateswebb]

here let me disagree with everyone, ok the music is the point, otherwise there would be no need for an engineer, you dont have anything to MIX!!

HOWEVER

the music is the point SO YOU WANT TO DELIVER IT AS GOOD AS POSSIBLE.

OK, so did you label your CD LIVE? if so then they got what they paid for, sounds to me they are askin ya for a studio take, and your offerin a live take...

Also since this is HOME recording dot com, then you do with what your budget allows, BUT your charging for this cd? how much 3 dollars? again then they cannot complain, surely a mastered cd would cost 5-6 dollars.

If the take is a live take, then sell it as live is my opinon, so when they ask about the quality explain that is because it is live.

 

[Garry Sharp]

I read a book about Springsteen. It said that he recorded his Nebraska album at home on a cassette recorder. When they took it all into the studio, they couldn't make it work, and in the end the LP they released was made from his home cassette recording. Was a nightmare to master, apparently

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I have come to admit , if not a defeat, at least avery serious setback to my opinion.
...
Doh! Done in by my own words.

Ah, Goldie, don't think of it so much of a setback as an epiphany!

Good to see a sense of humor over the whole thing though.

G.

 

[Farview]

. If I want to get good gigs not on the coffeehouse circuit I need a studio demo with a backing band and lots of whizbang.

I believe that if you had a good quality recording of you and your guitar, that was produced to sound like you in a (Nice sounding) coffee house, You would be able to get gigs.

If you have a nicely produce CD of what you do, no one will asking when you will get a band. A lot of people know that something is missing but they can't put their finger on it. I think that is why people want to hear you with a band- because something is missing... The production.


A minimally produced cd that has the right feel will be more satisfying to the listener and sell your talents better.

 

[mr.rich]

id say if you had a layered cd and got a show from it, then showed up with just a guitar the booker would be pissed

 

[satchmo]

As most of the other stuff has been covered I'll respond specifically to this sentence.

I came searching for persuasion and opinions on why I ought to be persuaded.

Becasue your audience wants you to. It sounds stupid, but if you want to get a gig, sell and album, or anything else, and your preferred audience isn't biting becasue of sound production, then either you have to increase the quality of your recordings, or you need to find a new audience. If you're trying to get into the Music Business, then there's a need to acknowledge it's a business. Your songs are your product --- if your expected customers are telling you that you need to change your product, then either you change it, or you change customers.

Customer preferences in almost any market are elusive, sometimes irrational, based on personal preference and the like. But when they make their preferences known, either meet them, or get out of that market.

Of course if you're just recording for your own pleasure then this rule doesn't apply.

Satch

 

[Zed10R]

id say if you had a layered cd and got a show from it, then showed up with just a guitar the booker would be pissed

I would agree 100% with that. Recording and production can either be about creating something that you cannot possibly accomplish by your self and do not intend on reproducing live without a full band, or perfecting the intimate details of the music you play on your own.

I personally would never put anything on cd that I, along with my band, cannot deliver live.

 

[giraffe]

you ruined your own songs by not paying attention to how they sounded

you did your own art a disservice

"so what if the parts are shit, the design is still excellent"
guess what, your car melted in the rain.

"it's a great picture, who cares what kind of paint i use"
cheep paint runs, flakes, and chips and people can't see the picture you intended.

 

[GoldFalcon]

That's been brought up a couple of times now. I wasn't clear enough on that point. I was saying that if I wanted to play anywhere else but the coffee house circuit then I was going to need a demo with a band. I meant that I would also have to show up with a band. No one else is in a hurry to book one man acoustic acts, especially those without a studio demo.

In all honesty I suspect that a lot of my moaning is simply frustration at having left off playing live music for about the last decade and only recently coming back to it. The environment in which I was gigging in the early/mid 90's in the southeast US isn't remotely like the environment today in the Pacific NW. I had a lot easier time getting booked for diverse (albeit small) venues then. A lot of the times I could just show up with a guitar do a couple of songs for whoever was booking music for the bar and be playing that night. Today I am locked into a very narrow type of venue and even those are expecting a CD before I get a booking.

On top of that the gear has changed as well. So you can just write me off as "in an adjustment period".

 

[Tim Walker]

Why is production quality so important to you?

Pride in what I do. I want my stuff to sound good, not like shit. Really nothing more than that.

Also shitty recordings, although they might be hit songs are grating on the ears after a while.

tim

 

[fraserhutch]

That's been brought up a couple of times now. I wasn't clear enough on that point. I was saying that if I wanted to play anywhere else but the coffee house circuit then I was going to need a demo with a band. I meant that I would also have to show up with a band. No one else is in a hurry to book one man acoustic acts, especially those without a studio demo.

In all honesty I suspect that a lot of my moaning is simply frustration at having left off playing live music for about the last decade and only recently coming back to it. The environment in which I was gigging in the early/mid 90's in the southeast US isn't remotely like the environment today in the Pacific NW. I had a lot easier time getting booked for diverse (albeit small) venues then. A lot of the times I could just show up with a guitar do a couple of songs for whoever was booking music for the bar and be playing that night. Today I am locked into a very narrow type of venue and even those are expecting a CD before I get a booking.

On top of that the gear has changed as well. So you can just write me off as "in an adjustment period".

Whereabouts in the PNW?

I hear what you're saying - and it goes for everwhere. You pretty much need a demo cd to get a gig anywhere these days. And it has to pertain to the act you're presenting. If you want a solo gig, you need a demo of a solo act.
Even if the gig pays $10

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

The good news is that there should be no shortage of coffee houses in the PNW.

G.

 

[Benreturns]

So realizing there must be a large concentration of audiophiles here who place a premium on production quality, I thought I'd come to the source. Why is production quality so important to you?

Ya know I have no idea the answer to that question. I guess we just like something to do in our spare time. Buuuuuttt how good does it feel when you hear a nicley produced piece of your own stuff on your best friends CD player??

 

[giraffe]

The environment in which I was gigging in the early/mid 90's in the southeast US isn't remotely like the environment today in the Pacific NW. I had a lot easier time getting booked for diverse (albeit small) venues then. A lot of the times I could just show up with a guitar do a couple of songs for whoever was booking music for the bar and be playing that night. Today I am locked into a very narrow type of venue and even those are expecting a CD before I get a booking.

that's actually really interesting, i wonder if the "need" for a demo now is a result of the price drop in recording equipment, and their fore the increase in the average musicians ability to get a cd?

in a manner one could say that the availability of the service created the need for it.


Adam Smith would not be entertained

 

[Garry Sharp]

Adam Smith would not be entertained

Jean Baptiste Says would be nodding in agreemetn with you, however

 

[giraffe]

but really, it should be cheeper than dirt to get a relitively clean vox acu demo.

i have a studio in my garadge that i do demos out of, and i impose a 100$ minimum, because with a tight singer/git player you can set up a couple mics
and record 3-10 songs, and walk out the door with a clean demo (demo)
in under 2 hrs.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

that's actually really interesting, i wonder if the "need" for a demo now is a result of the price drop in recording equipment, and their fore the increase in the average musicians ability to get a cd?

in a manner one could say that the availability of the service created the need for it.

Yeah, I think its partly a matter of changed expectations. It's so relatively inexpensive and easy to create a homebrew demo CD these days, that virtually everyone who is not already solidly networked into the local scene has one. They may not all be Record Plant quality, but most at least sound better than the average garage tapes of 20 years ago. So when a stranger shows up without one, they kinda stick out like a snow ball in a coal bin.

I think also, frankly, that there's a lot more people calling themselves musicians these days than there used to be too, just like there are a lot more people calling themselves "engineers". And just like with the engineers, the "signal to noise ratio of quality" amongst these musicians has decreased from 20 years ago. It used to be a lot easier to hire a trubador on spec and get something worth hiring a second time than it is now. I'm not saying you are one of the questionable ones Gold; I'm just saying that without a decent quality demo disc, the booking agent wil be less likely to consider you as otherwise.

I also thing that crowds are tougher to please these days. Live venues have to compete against iTunes, Satellite radio, cable TV, etc., where people can hear and see just what they want often exactly when they want. If their acts just don't attract the numbers, they won't be hired back. The days of banjo acts at Shakeys Pizza being enough to wow the crowd are over.

I can say one thing that bucks against those trends, though, at least in my area. There's still to this day nothing like networking and cronieism to get gigs. Musicians who have the rep and those who are respected by those who have the rep have absolutely no need for demo discs around these parts. usually all it takes are a few phone calls. GoldEagle, start netwroking with the local musician scene. See if you can sit in on a few gigs with those already workin' it and get your face, name and talent known. If you're known as a good musician and a decent guy, that'll get you gigs faster than any professionally produced CD. At least that's how it works here in the MW.

G.

G.

 

[giraffe]

I think also, frankly, (1)that there's a lot more people calling themselves musicians these days than there used to be too, just like there are (2) a lot more people calling themselves "engineers".
G.

1. that would sufficently (to me) explain the relitively new "need" for a demo
lets face it, a lot of (not all) the people you've never head of
kinda suck

2. now lets not get personal

 

[gullfo]

another thought - posterity. i can only imagine how many recordings made over the years have the artist thinking - man! if only we had fixed that bad note, or quieted that spit, or added a touch of treble, or...

once you record it, it will never be like that again. you might as well get it as good a quality as you can - performance and recording quality. even the sex pistols album was fairly good recording and it helped immensely because it still sounds great! now if they had done a low production job on it, it probably would not stand the test of time. a good reason for a good quality production would be the fact that once you render this recording to CD/vinyl/etc... then you pretty much have to live with it...

so if you have a single person playing an acoustic guitar and singing - you could have several tracks - maybe double tracking the guitar and vocals? maybe adding a time delay on a cloned guitar track to widen it a bit, some minor tweaks on the vocals to make them stand out or hide a bit, depending on the composition... maybe some subtle harmonies or extra guitar licks that might not be significant live but make the recording sound more interesting...

a guitar/singer piece could easily have 4-12 tracks and still mostly sound like a single person performing it and still sound like an interesting and excellent recording. IMHO, there's no reason not to have as much production as you're comfortable with and retaining the integrity of your live act.

heck, you could even throw in a couple or few "band" tracks where you deliberately added some extra instruments - a stand up bass, or some hand percussion, or a female vocal, a violin... doesn't mean you've lost your live integrity because you cannot reproduce those exactly live, it simply means that YOUR live interpretation of the music has to adapt so people still enjoy it and still enjoy your CD. I think that's why a lot of people are enjoying "unplugged" - not because the production value is reduced, but because it challenges the musicians to make it interesting in a new arrangement or lower keyed performance.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

2. now lets not get personal

heh heh. Hey, I didn't mention anytihng about people calling themselves silent, loooong-necked mascot/spokesperson for Toys-R-Us animals from Africa, now did I?

No, I honestly wasn't referring to anyone personally, sorry if it came off that way. But we all know that in this day and age there are a lot of people who go out and spend a grand or two on a small mixer, a few microphones and a copy of CubaseSX before having one bit of research, training, or experience under their belt, and then hang out their shingle as an audio engineer. We see folks like that coming to this board all the time (no I won't name names ). The lowering cost and rising capability of technology has made this possible. Some have the instinct or talent for it and "grab the handle" on it right away, but most of the others don't.

I've seen - around my town anyway - a similar thing happen with the people in front of the microphones too. A good measure of that is a typical jam night/open mic night around here. (I occasionally attend some of these because some of my friends run some of them and/or are in the house band for them.) Open mic nights have always had plenty of their "Gong Show Moments", of course. But I'll tell you there seem to be lot more "hacks" coming on stage these days than there were 20 years ago or so. The number of mullets with brand-new $1500 Pauls and $50 silk shirts with flaming skulls printed on them coming on and then playing these oddball chord changes that don't make any sense - if you can hear them through the wall of sustain created by the virtual forest of $150 sustain pedals growing around their feet. Just when I start thinking that I must be getting old, that music must have progressed to some new fad of discordance in music design I'll hear that same band switch to playing some old Zepplin or ZZ Top standard or something, and there will be the same goofball changes in the "showcase solo". It's then that I realize that it's not me not liking their original composition, it's simply that these guys don't know how to play guitar.

It used to be that you got one of those I've-got-all-the-gear-and-all-the-hair-and-all-the-moves-but-I-couldn't-play-a-simple-inversion-on-a-1-4-5-progression-if-my-life-depended-on-it bands a week. Now it seems that 80% of the bands are like that. It's no suprise that in such an environment a booking manager would want to hear a demo first.

G.