Preamps

[PoorBoyRecordings]

I am still using my old A-3340S with the teac/tascam model 5b mixer, using OSP DL-330 mics,( a generic clone for the sure 57 mics) to mic the amp cab and was wondering if a preamp would help with the sound of everything ? I am getting resonable good results ( I think ) whith my current setup but, if anything helps reinforce my recordings, I want it Also, I would like to know what would be a decent pair of Monitor speakers in the $100 to $200 range. I know that 's not much but I'm a bit straped for $$$$ at the moment. I know that's not much but I am using a pair of Nady CSM-5 now. A bookshelf size, plastic cabinets, that I have to run trough my Pioneer STA-58 studio amp and they sound so hollow.

 

[The Great Cobb]

preamp

I dont doubt that you could keep on recording with what you have and be fine. But, if you are looking for a cool sounding inexpensive preamp, id suggest one of the old UK version of the Joe Meek 3Qs. Its got the preamp itself, an optical compressor, and an EQ with unique sounding midrange. You can plug XLR or 1/4" into it and it has 2 outputs. Ive used mine for years and im sure its not the worlds greatest preamp, but coming from nothing to it is a big step up. It pretty much just makes everything you run through it sound more interesting if you set the compressor right. Once you set it up for guitar and play a little, then turn the compressor/EQ off, you really miss what it was doing to the sound. There is a new chinese made 3Q, but ive never tried it, ive only used the old UK version.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

using OSP DL-330 mics,( a generic clone for the sure 57 mics) to mic the amp cab

I'm not familiar with this product but it would outwardly appear to be your weakest link in the chain. Spending a couple of hundred bucks on a known good microphone may go a lot further then then trying to spit shine a cheap microphone with a semi-exotic pre-amp.

Cheers!

 

[The Great Cobb]

I'm not familiar with this product but it would outwardly appear to be your weakest link in the chain. Spending a couple of hundred bucks on a known good microphone may go a lot further then then trying to spit shine a cheap microphone with a semi-exotic pre-amp.

Cheers!

Yes that is true. I figured the OP was happy with his current mic since his questions were about whether a preamp would improve his sound or not, and not whether a better mic would. But yeah, id change the mic first if that is the question.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Yes that is true. I figured the OP was happy with his current mic since his questions were about whether a preamp would improve his sound or not, and not whether a better mic would. But yeah, id change the mic first if that is the question.

My apologies if it appeared I was demeaning your advice. There's no doubt there are gains to be made from quality pre-amps and compressors and in the digital realm these days, there are endless choices of modeling processors that will turn a sou's ear into a silk purse. So I guess the basic axiom in all of this is that there's usually more then one way to solve a problem and if the OP is perfectly happy with his Microphone choice, so be it.

Cheers!

 

[PoorBoyRecordings]

I'm not familiar with this product but it would outwardly appear to be your weakest link in the chain. Spending a couple of hundred bucks on a known good microphone may go a lot further then then trying to spit shine a cheap microphone with a semi-exotic pre-amp.

Cheers!

Thx Ghost. I have compaired my 330's to the Sure57, and they are pretty close to being the same. The only difference I can find in my DL-330's are they don't have as good a feed back rejection, nor can they handle quite as much SPL as the 57's but they are decent mic's for the price and they really do reproduce what you are recording.

 

[PoorBoyRecordings]

I dont doubt that you could keep on recording with what you have and be fine. But, if you are looking for a cool sounding inexpensive preamp, id suggest one of the old UK version of the Joe Meek 3Qs. Its got the preamp itself, an optical compressor, and an EQ with unique sounding midrange. You can plug XLR or 1/4" into it and it has 2 outputs. Ive used mine for years and im sure its not the worlds greatest preamp, but coming from nothing to it is a big step up. It pretty much just makes everything you run through it sound more interesting if you set the compressor right. Once you set it up for guitar and play a little, then turn the compressor/EQ off, you really miss what it was doing to the sound. There is a new chinese made 3Q, but ive never tried it, ive only used the old UK version.

Sounds great. Where do I get one of these ? I don't want to put out tons of money just for some recordings for myself and maybe some friends. But I would like better. Thx GC and Ghost for your help.

 

[PoorBoyRecordings]

I dont doubt that you could keep on recording with what you have and be fine. But, if you are looking for a cool sounding inexpensive preamp, id suggest one of the old UK version of the Joe Meek 3Qs. Its got the preamp itself, an optical compressor, and an EQ with unique sounding midrange. You can plug XLR or 1/4" into it and it has 2 outputs. Ive used mine for years and im sure its not the worlds greatest preamp, but coming from nothing to it is a big step up. It pretty much just makes everything you run through it sound more interesting if you set the compressor right. Once you set it up for guitar and play a little, then turn the compressor/EQ off, you really miss what it was doing to the sound. There is a new chinese made 3Q, but ive never tried it, ive only used the old UK version.

I did a quick search on eBay and found this. Is this the unit you were talking about ? And does $250 sound about right with free shipping ?

 

[The Great Cobb]

Well

The one you posted is the newer chinese version. I havent used one, so i cant say if it is better/worse/etc. If you wait around a bit, or go looking in a few other places, you can get one of the older ones for about 100-150 bucks. But, as always, you gotta make sure you are getting one in good shape if you buy used. There are usually a few on ebay, it might just be a dry spell at the moment.

But also, there is much truth to what Ghost of FM was saying, the microphone may be a bigger problem. You might want to check into a genuine 57 or possibly save a bit and get a Shure SM7, which is (to me) a great microphone. Maybe you could try out a friends mic or something, to see if it gives you better results.

@Ghost of FM... nah i didnt think that. I was maybe too quick to jump at the question being asked rather than thinking what the real problem might be. So, no worries.

 

[PoorBoyRecordings]

and Monitors ?

OK. You guys have sold me on the Sure SM57. I found a place I can get them for $99 bux each. Sound about right ?

And as for the monitors. I'll post a pic and hopefully you can give me some suggestions. I know they are one of "the" most important part of the mixing, etc. but would only have a couple hundred bux after I buy a couple of mics. Here are the Nady CSM-5 monitors. They are plastic and have such a hollow sound.

 

[purerad]

Here's what I use for monitors.........

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-640

i bought mine on sale for 130 w/free shipping, have seen them on sale
few times a year so wait for a sale. I had a couple pretty good music people tell me about them. No they're not as good as a high end monitor but they all said for under 500 you can't beat them and I believe it! mine are fantastic!
here's the amp i use with them


http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=302-601
you can find these for sale usually on parts express or amazon for 100 usualy
i thing i paid 90 for mine with free shipping.
there is one catch to this amp......has two inputs but only one is really usable as the one input is designed to "sense" the sound for audio video and it sucks.
as it shuts that input on and off constantly.
not a high end set up but you should be able to get both and any connectors you'd need for under 250.
I'm sure some people won't agree with these choices but they work awesome for me.

 

[PoorBoyRecordings]

Thx for the input

Here's what I use for monitors.........

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-640

i bought mine on sale for 130 w/free shipping, have seen them on sale
few times a year so wait for a sale. I had a couple pretty good music people tell me about them. No they're not as good as a high end monitor but they all said for under 500 you can't beat them and I believe it! mine are fantastic!
here's the amp i use with them


http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=302-601
you can find these for sale usually on parts express or amazon for 100 usualy
i thing i paid 90 for mine with free shipping.
there is one catch to this amp......has two inputs but only one is really usable as the one input is designed to "sense" the sound for audio video and it sucks.
as it shuts that input on and off constantly.
not a high end set up but you should be able to get both and any connectors you'd need for under 250.
I'm sure some people won't agree with these choices but they work awesome for me.

Thx for your input purerad. I checked out the monitors you use and they look pretty decent and from what I read, would do the job for me. I just record for myself and some friends. Thx again for your input.

 

[PoorBoyRecordings]

Sure SM57 vs OSP DL-330

Hi guys. I did as you said and bought a sure sm57, and after getting it I compared it to the OSP 330's I have. Overall, I would give the 330's a rating of 80% to 85% of being as good as the 57. As stated in one the my posts above, the feedback rejection isn't as good but ok for recording one person/mic at a time. If you get to amps to close together, you pick up about 10 to 15% feedback unless you have the amps facing away from each other and several feet apart. SPL .... the 330 came in at about 75% as good as the 57. And sound reproduction, I couldn't tell any difference. Sounded great. I would hesitate to suggest the DL-330's to some one short on money and needing a decent mic. Granted, the Sure SM57 is a better mic, IMHO, the DL-330's come in close.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Well, glad to see you've improved your recording chain with the Shure microphone or at least made one additional step on the road to getting the sound you're after.

You also mentioned that you weren't happy with the speakers you were mixing on and if you're still working with them, you may not be hearing all the improvements that the SM57 has done for you.

The point being overall though is your set up may still need other refinements even after you get some speakers that you're happy with. Things like Mic placement, guitar amp settings, the guitar you play though it and all the variable setting on all of that can also make large changes in the results you get. Often times it's not just the gear, but how you use it that makes the real differences. Setting on the guitar amp that sound good live may need to be experimented with to get better recorded results. Recording is always a mix of science and art.

If you really feel that you've made a mistake in getting the SM57, hopefully you can return it or try something else. I don't believe any of us specifically told you that you should buy that Mic in particular or that it will be the magic bullet that solves all your issues. But, the SM57 is an industry standard for mic'ing guitar amps so it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to keep it.

One last thought here; Perhaps post an mp3 of your recording results and that might give us much better clues as to where you might improve your sound quality and/or recording techniques.

Cheers!

 

[thebigcheese]

Having not heard your recordings, it's entirely possible your mixes are hollow rather than the speakers, but, assuming you are also commenting based on listening to other people's stuff, I have a pair of M-Audio BX5a speakers that have amps in them and they are quite nice. I don't have any regrets about them, and they are reasonably cheap, especially if you check around here or gearslutz.com for them (I think I got mine on gear slutz). Ultimately, your speakers only help so much. The way the sound bounces around in the room can be a problem, too, so you might try just moving your setup around. When I was in school, our mixing room had several spots where you literally couldn't hear the low-end bass at all and other spots where you'd think it was overpowering (and that's without moving the speakers). I hope they've fixed that...

Guitars are pretty finicky to record, too, so you could also just try positioning the mic a little different. I actually prefer either an MXL 990 or v67g to the 57 for guitars, but that's personal preference, I suppose. You can get perfectly good results with a 57, just play with the EQ. If you have a good starting tone, you shouldn't have to do too much to get a good tone on the other end.

 

[PoorBoyRecordings]

Well, glad to see you've improved your recording chain with the Shure microphone or at least made one additional step on the road to getting the sound you're after.

>Yep. Bought the 57 and have been playing with it. It is better than the DL-330's but those 330's sure are close.

You also mentioned that you weren't happy with the speakers you were mixing on and if you're still working with them, you may not be hearing all the improvements that the SM57 has done for you.

The point being overall though is your set up may still need other refinements even after you get some speakers that you're happy with. Things like Mic placement, guitar amp settings, the guitar you play though it and all the variable setting on all of that can also make large changes in the results you get. Often times it's not just the gear, but how you use it that makes the real differences. Setting on the guitar amp that sound good live may need to be experimented with to get better recorded results. Recording is always a mix of science and art.

>Ah, I've already learned all that from reading diff posts from all of you good guys and did it all. I finally found that sweet spot to place the mic (the Sure >and the OSP place the same as for sound reproduction ). Since I don't play live anymore after having a stroke, I just play some here at home for some of >my friends, family, and myself. I also have a Yamaha MG8/2FX and run it through a TEAC AG-790 home stereo radio. May sound stupid but I can get some <sweet sounds with that set up

If you really feel that you've made a mistake in getting the SM57, hopefully you can return it or try something else. I don't believe any of us specifically told you that you should buy that Mic in particular or that it will be the magic bullet that solves all your issues. But, the SM57 is an industry standard for mic'ing guitar amps so it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to keep it.

>Oh no. I'm gonna keep it. I love it ( almost as much as the 330's ) And you are right about nobody telling me I should go out buy one, I was just >taking your advice on sound and all.

One last thought here; Perhaps post an mp3 of your recording results and that might give us much better clues as to where you might improve your sound quality and/or recording techniques.

>When I get my deck cleaned I'll put up a recording. I have learned a lot since I did my first recording 07/09. Man, I thought that sounded like a >professional recording, posting it on soundclick, listeded to the other artists there to find out mine sounded like it was recorded in the outhouse using >metal cans with strings for mics.

Cheers!

Have a great day. L8r.