Preamps on Mackie mixers or rack preamps

[Shadowdog]

Not sure if this is the right spot for this question, but are the Mic preamps in the the Mackie Mixers (i was reading about the Mackie 1402-VLZ PRO Compact Mixer) better than say if I was gonna buy the Presonus Firepod or some of the other commonly used rack unit preamps I see being used by other on here.

 

[JazzMang]

Firepod pre's beat the mackies in my book.
they sound clean, detailed, and accurate while maintaining a neutral sound.

 

[skanky]

Hmmmm... Mackie preamps?? I thought it were Mackie noise generators.

go for the firepod. They sound much better and they have less noise

 

[krs]

Don't know the Firepod, but the VLZ-Pro pres are bashed by so many people around here it's RIDICULOUS. Be sure they aren't speaking of older generation of Mackie pres....VLZ sound fine everytime I use them. Not that I've recorded an entire project using them exclusively though.

 

[ryanlikestorock]

In my experience, the Mackie pres aren't nearly as bad as the Mackie EQ. If you're interested in getting 16 preamps for $1000, Mackie is the way to go. If you have more money to spend, your sound is going to improve.

At the very least, get one stereo preamp (a Joe Meek or Focusrite) in addition to your Mackie so all your overdubs will be done at a higher quality.

 

[Ronan]

I agree that the Mackie mic pres are not awful. It has been a long time since I have used them myself but I mix tons of records done by other engineers and tracks done with Mackies are rarely amazing but also rarely that bad. Some time I can NOT say about Roland or low end Yamaha mic pres.

 

[mrface2112]

the mackie preamps are certainly usable. as long as you bypass the eq and the rest of the channel strip, they're clean enough and have adequate headroom. they don't have the depth and definition of a "higher end" preamp, but then again, they don't cost nearly as much.

that said, i got a presonus firebox over the weekend and it's (supposedly) got the same preamps as the firepod......and i've noticed a decent step up from those in my mackie. i haven't run any blind tests, but i trust my ears. the preamps in my VTB1 and Symetrix 528 are better sounding too. but per-channel, they're considerably more "spendy".

suffice it to say that anything i wanted "character" out of, i would use a "character-giving" preamp for.....but for general "it needs a preamp" use, i don't have any problems using a mackie preamp.


cheers,
wade

 

[Shadowdog]

cool, thanks I'm glad I asked that then, cause I was just hoping to buy the Mackie and get the EQs and preamps ect in one unit. Then I was looking at that new Mackie Controller with the "new" Onyx preamps and was wondeirng about that, but maybe that would not be the route to take either.

http://mackie.com/products/onyx1620/index.html

So then let me ask about the preamps in the Tascam 1884 Firewire Mixer adn how do they compare to the Firepod's? Or should I just steer clear from all of the "all in one units" and rack mount components, EQs, preamps etc?

http://tascam.com/Products/FW-1884.html

 

[XLR]

I've got Mackie VLZ Pro preamps (1202) and with many mic's they sound very good. Clean and clear with all my condensers. Not good with my ribbon or dymanic mic's though. It seems like the hotter the mic the better it does with the Mackie pre's, and all my condensers are pretty hot. I think the Mackies sound best when using the preamp direct out's. I've got 5 different types of pre's here, and they're my second line set.

Tim

 

[Shadowdog]

curious, what is your first (and others i guess). Also, when you say you used the preamp direct outs, that means you are not even using the mixer then?

 

[XLR]

curious, is your first (and others i guess). Also, when you say you used the preamp direct outs, that means you are not even using the mixer then?

My first choice is generally a Great River pre, 2 channels, and it's what I rely on mostly since most of my work is with stereo mic configurations direct to 2 track. When I need more pre's I go to the Mackies. The others I've got are handy for different things, but I don't keep them cabled up in the studio - Tascam US122 , VX Pocket PCMCIA card with 2 channels of pre, Presonus Bluetube.

Yeah, the preamp direct out's take the signal before it's affected by anything else in the channel or mixing bus. That's good for getting the cleanest signal to record, and the mixer is flexible enough that I can use it for monitoring at the same time.

Tim

 

[Shadowdog]

Wow I google the Great River preamps. Pricey little units. Sooo, if I were to buy the Presonus Firepod and later collected on some life insurance money or something and picked up a better preamp. How would I use that with my Firepod, just run into one of the inputs on that from the "better" preamp, so it goes thru the firewire?

 

[XLR]

How would I use that with my Firepod, just run into one of the inputs on that from the "better" preamp, so it goes thru the firewire?

The Firepod's got line inputs so it sounds like you could bypass its pre's and use a different preamp as long as the levels (+4 dBu vs -10 dBV) were OK.

Tim

 

[Shadowdog]

OK, thanks. I think I will try the Firepod and decide later on upgrading amps and possibly adding a mixer. This will at least get me going and i haven't really say anything bad about it, just that there is better.

 

[Dracon]

The new ONYX mixers from Mackie have some nice pre-amps (not a cheap mixer). I forgot to look, but I wasn't sure what price range you were looking at, but guessing from the 1604 VLZ (what's that $800 retail?).

The ONYX mixers have ONYX mic pre-amps (better than the VLZ - 1620 $779.00 retail).

However, for say $800 you can buy 4 Joemeek ThreeQ pres.
Granted the mixer has 8 pres and the 4 Joemeek ThreeQ have one pre each and take up that much more space.

It all depends what you want to do with it.

 

[cellardweller]

Shadowdog- I don't suppose you would know anything about the mackie 808 series powered mixers? Specifically how the pre's compare to those in the 1402-VLZ PRO?

It's a long shot, but I found a post by "Shadowkat" who said he had one of the 808 series powered mixers.

 

[Shadowdog]

Yeah the mackie 1620 was about $800 (plus another $400 for the firewire adapter.) I got on this whole mixer thing when I saw someone suggesting purchasing a parametric EQ, so I figured going with a mixer like the 1620 I get the 8 preamps I want (for recording my drummer) and the EQ. But now I think I'm swaying back to the Firepod. Now a guy at work is telling me to not go firewire and use the Delta 1010, so then the question would be what Preamp to match with that.

I could probably get away with miking my drummer with 4 mics so if there is another preamp I can spend money on similar to what I would be paying by going with the Firepod (for firewire) or buying the Delta 1010 let me know, I can always save and get another preamp later.

CellerDweller, no Shadowkat here, just the dog, i don't have anything but a Tascam 424 4-track. I'm just trying to figure out what to get to have a great beginner digital studio.

 

[alexthacowboy]

if u looking for a real nice 8 pres, go for an old altec automatic mixer on ebay u can get one for less than 250, and i'm shure these one beats the cheaps pres out there (think this units was like 2300 when new). i have a mackie 24.8 and 2 altecs (i use the altecs to record) and the mackie to mix (lines inputs).

but thats my 02 cents, actually i got 2 altecs for 150 usd on ebay.

the only problem is u need a phantom power since these altecs run 18 v phantom, but u dont gonna waste more than 100 for 2 phantoms power, i have a 4 channel crown and works very nice.

 

[Shadowdog]

if u looking for a real nice 8 pres, go for an old altec automatic mixer on ebay u can get one for less than 250, and i'm shure these one beats the cheaps pres out there (think this units was like 2300 when new). i have a mackie 24.8 and 2 altecs (i use the altecs to record) and the mackie to mix (lines inputs).

but thats my 02 cents, actually i got 2 altecs for 150 usd on ebay.

the only problem is u need a phantom power since these altecs run 18 v phantom, but u dont gonna waste more than 100 for 2 phantoms power, i have a 4 channel crown and works very nice.

Are either of these what you are talking about?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39783&item=5758144217&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3278&item=7306953373&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

 

[Dracon]

But now I think I'm swaying back to the Firepod. Now a guy at work is telling me to not go firewire and use the Delta 1010, so then the question would be what Preamp to match with that.

Hey dog - If you listen to every guy out here and in the real world you'll go nuts.

1. What's more important to you (money or recording)?
2. Look at how many tracks do you want to record with your studio
a. Record 8 tracks at a time?
b. Record 16 tracks at a time?
c. Record 24 tracks at a time?
3. Do you want to record live or more of a garage band recording?
4. What kind of music are you recording (Heavy metal, SKA, Country, etc)?
5. Are you going to sell the music or is this for fun?

I would guess (based on your earlier comment on the Great River pres that money is probably somewhat an issue.
You also mentioned you play HeavyMetal (don't need the best pres in the world for heavymetal).
Since you mentioned the drummer (Kick, Tom(1 or 2), High Hat, Snare, and Cymbals) which you are looking anywhere between 4 to 8 depending on what you want to mic and your drummers Kit.
I'm guessing you want to record how you play (together), meaning you play guitar, your drummer, and perhaps a singer? This set up takes you up to anywhere from 6-10 channels.

My suggestion is get the best microphone preamp for the vocals (you, some girl singing whatever). Everything else, pipe it through your Mackie VLZ mixers preamp.

Now for audio card I have a Delta 4/4 and I love it. The Delta 10/10 will only give you 10 channels. That means you have a drum kit with 8 mics set-up then you can only have two other people or instruments being recorded seperately (otherwise you'll have to combine two instruments or instrument and singer).
Firewire can handle a lot of data the new firewire standard 1349b can handle 800Mbs (that's 8 times faster than my Cable High Speed Internet), the old standard was 1349a at 400Mbs (still 4 times faster than Cable).
Firewire, PCI, USB2, whatever. That's an argument no one is going to win.
Think money vs time and what you want to do with it.
Hope my whole diatriab helped.