Preamp question

[BigRay]

Yeah, I was going to suggest the 800r..and hed still have enough for a decent mic, or a BG-1..

OK, I just did some poking around and Elliot, it seems as though your current interface and converters is an Alesis Multimix?

Before you go hunting down $1500 preamps, this might be the place to start with upgrading. Running a DAV into this could earn you jail time for crimes against humanity.

Ray, which Onyx? The 400F and the 1200F both come with pres and A/D conversion, and they're firewire interfaces. The 800R is a 192kHz preamp with digital out, but no interface capabilities.

Street Prices:
Onyx 400F - $699 (4pres, 10 channel I/O, FW)
Onyx 1200F - $1599 (not sure it's released yet though) (12pres, 32ch I/O, FW)
Onyx 800R - $999 (8pres, lightpipe and AES output)

I personally like the Onyx stuff - it's clean and stands up surprisingly well to much more expensive gear. I still have one Onyx 800R in one of my mobile racks, and it does a great job. No plans to get rid of it anytime soon, that's for sure!

 

[tnjazz]

Yeah, I was going to suggest the 800r..and hed still have enough for a decent mic, or a BG-1..

If the Alesis thingy has lightpipe input, this isn't a bad choice. Then you could use it strictly as an interface, and have good preamps and conversion.

If it were me though, I'd probably pick up a 400F and what Ray suggested - either a good 2 channel pre or some decent condensers. The Mackies are more known for their preamps, but their A/D converters are quite good as well.

If your budget really is $1500-ish you might look at the RME Fireface 800 as well. Marginal preamps, but worlds better than what you currently have. Plus, highly regarded converters and 2 lightpipe inputs for future expansion. Plus you get what I consider the best thing about an RME product - TOTALMIX.

http://www.rme-audio.com

Fireface was not a good choice for me personally, but there are many folks on this forum who will swear by it. I am a fan of RME products in general though, so if you have the same luck as most of the folks here you will NOT regret this investment at all.

Then sell the Alesis thingy and buy some condensers.

 

[elenore19]

Wow, Ray recommending the DAV? Shocking...

In all seriousness though, before you go out and drop $1500 on a DAV or ANYTHING else for that matter, what converters and interface are you using?

Maybe it's just me, but it seems kind of silly to buy a $1500 pre if you're going to run it into a freakin' Delta or something like that.

Alright, so I'm a noob, I state that every post I believe. So I'm not sure what you mean by converters and interface. SO umm. If you could explain that'd be great. Here's what I have for starters on gear, I'm not going to get to buying a preamp for a long while yet, so yeah. Yeah, I don't have much.


Mics:
a couple sm-57's and a vocal mic my friend is giving me that he says is damn good. (not sure of brand) one Behringer XM8500 and some shitty nady starpower thing.

MIXER: Alesis multimax 16 firewire mixer, I believe that's it.

Yeahhhhh, that's mainly it for now. I of course have some monitors, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the converters and such. They are m-audio studiophile monitors with the sub. I'll be using Cubase LE on my computer. Sorry I'm such a noob. Thanks for your help


-Elliot the noob

 

[travelin travis]

elliot the noob - converters or a/d (analog to digital) and d/a (digital to analog) converters are what change sound into 1's and 0's (digital) and back. when you record to a pc, your sound card's (mixer in your case) a/d converters convert the audio to digital information. when you listen back to the recorded audio, your sound card's (mixer in your case) d/a converters convert the digital info back to an electrical audio signal.

wether your monitors allow you to hear the differences in good vs. bad converters depends on the clarity and level of detail that your monitors are able to reproduce.

btw, being a noob is no protection against getting the full treatment. you might as well leave that bit out from now on.

 

[BigRay]

converters===as in analog to digital converters...IE taking the analog signal(from the source) and converting it into Binary(0,2) that the computer can use.. interface...an item that you use to get the sound into your computer.

here...http://www.theprojectstudiohandbook.com/directory.htm

grab these books..

John Woram's "Sound Recording Handbook
Alton Everest's "Master Handbook of Acoustics" i
Behind The Glass
total recording mouton
'Tape Recorders' by P Spring
Sound recording practice' by John Borwick
Professional Microphone Techniques
http://www.royerlabs.com/democd.html
Principles of Digital Audio" by Ken Pohlmann

b]Must Read[/b] Books...Also, be sure to peruse the the Audio Engineering Society's Internet Archive. (AES)...there is a fee, but it is well worth it. http://www.aes.org/e-lib/ I have learned a lot from snooping around there..
http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

Sound Recording Handbook
Master Handbook of Acoustics
Behind The Glass
Total Recording
Tape Recorders
Sound recording practice
Professional Microphone Techniques
Principles of Digital Audio
The New Stereo Soundbook
The Microphone book
On Location Recording Techniques
Electroacoustical Reference Handbook
Audio Engineering
Handbook of Recording Engineering
Audio Dictionary
Handbook of Recording Engineering
From tinfoil to Stereo, a history of recording
Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook
Mastering Audio
The Mixing Engineer's Handbook

Alright, so I'm a noob, I state that every post I believe. So I'm not sure what you mean by converters and interface. SO umm. If you could explain that'd be great. Here's what I have for starters on gear, I'm not going to get to buying a preamp for a long while yet, so yeah. Yeah, I don't have much.


Mics:
a couple sm-57's and a vocal mic my friend is giving me that he says is damn good. (not sure of brand) one Behringer XM8500 and some shitty nady starpower thing.

MIXER: Alesis multimax 16 firewire mixer, I believe that's it.

Yeahhhhh, that's mainly it for now. I of course have some monitors, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the converters and such. They are m-audio studiophile monitors with the sub. I'll be using Cubase LE on my computer. Sorry I'm such a noob. Thanks for your help


-Elliot the noob

 

[travelin travis]

yea, after you've spent $500 on books you'll be able to use your $500 worth of gear to it's full potential. the alternative would be to hang here for a couple of years and use google like it's the bible (you'll actually have a personality still in tact though).

 

[BigRay]

yea, after you've spent $500 on books you'll be able to use your $500 worth of gear to it's full potential. the alternative would be to hang here for a couple of years and use google like it's the bible (you'll actually have a personality still in tact though).

a man can never suffer from too much knowledge! googling is ok for somethings, but due to the high level of BS floating around, you cannot always depend on internet searches. Books are typically pretty good for learning. Thats why schools use em and all.

and if you are interested in being an engineer, chances are that you are a dweeb anyway, and that your personality is already lacking in some area.

 

[travelin travis]

gotta admit, some good points.

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

you order by emailing mick@davelectronics.com OR davelectronics@tiscali.co.uk there are no retailers, as Mick will not let retailers sell his stuff,,,he doesnt want prices going up.

As I've said before KMR sells them

 

[BigRay]

As I've said before KMR sells them

ok..well one..but it is pretty dumb to order through a retailer when you get them cheaper directly from Mick...retailers have to make profit on top of what they give to mick..

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

ok..well one..but it is pretty dumb to order through a retailer when you get them cheaper directly from Mick...retailers have to make profit on top of what they give to mick..

Yeah you're probably right.

KMR lets you try before you buy which is pretty cool, not many retailers let you do that these days.

I guess the DAV guy might do the same anyway?

 

[BigRay]

Yeah you're probably right.

KMR lets you try before you buy which is pretty cool, not many retailers let you do that these days.

I guess the DAV guy might do the same anyway?

Yeah, he will, depending on the situation.

 

[sbcgroup2]

I use API 512c's and think they sound great and are a good value. Plus I like the fact that it's a space saving design

The difference between my Mackie VLZ and Behringer Tube Ultragain and my API's is like night and day. They make those units sound like garbage; so thin and sterile. Basically the Behringer was/is being used for extra channels for the drum kit just for me to get by at the moment until I can replace it with API's. Made a huge difference on the guitar tracks. The VLZ was put in a live PA rack; it's fine there and works for our situation. If I had to do an instrument PA board and didn't want to spend much money, I'd be starting with Allen & Heath.

As far as a good dealer, I'd recommend Vintage King Audio (online).

 

[pohaku]

APIs are nice, but fairly pricey if you are looking at having 8 pres - especially in the 500 series card configuration. The cheapest rack and power supply is the OSA 8 space rack which runs $599. A 6 slot API Lunchbox is about $425 new. 512c modules can be picked up for about $675 new and about $600 used. Even with used modules, that's about $5400 for 8 channels. An API 3124 is about $2400 new -- so $4800 for 8 channels brand new. Unless you want the flexibility of being able to put other brand pre cards, or EQ or compressor cards in the rack, it's cheaper to buy two 3124s if you really want 8 channels of API pres.

 

[tnjazz]

Congratulations on your APIs. Obviously they make you quite happy. However, we are talking about a situation where the OP is looking for 8 channels of pre for $1500 or less. Upon further review, his converters are Alesis Multimix!

APIs do not enter into this situation at all. Nor does whether or not Mick will let you test drive a DAV like KMR will.

Help the guy out already with some reasonable suggestions, instead of hijacking his thread.

Anyone else have anything useful to add, so that the OP doesn't come back today and go "what the fuck are these guys talking about $5K preamps in my thread for?"

/rant off

 

[pohaku]

Personally, in the OPs price range, I'd try and track down 2 used Sytek pres and call it a day. Or a combo of one used Sytek pre, some Bricks at the GC blowout price and a used RNP, if you really want a couple tube channels. I think the Sytek and the RNP are pretty close soundwise, so the only reason to get an RNP would be to add a couple Bricks and still get 8 channels.

Of course, I'm not even addressing converters here.

 

[BigRay]

watch out for the post police!!!!

Congratulations on your APIs. Obviously they make you quite happy. However, we are talking about a situation where the OP is looking for 8 channels of pre for $1500 or less. Upon further review, his converters are Alesis Multimix!

APIs do not enter into this situation at all. Nor does whether or not Mick will let you test drive a DAV like KMR will.

Help the guy out already with some reasonable suggestions, instead of hijacking his thread.

Anyone else have anything useful to add, so that the OP doesn't come back today and go "what the fuck are these guys talking about $5K preamps in my thread for?"

/rant off

 

[sbcgroup2]

Re:

Sorry about the API suggestion..didn't realize the 8 channels for under $1500 criteria

I say grab a Focusrite Octo Pre. Decent, British preamps for the price plus compression on every channel. And you'd still be way under budget!

 

[elenore19]

Congratulations on your APIs. Obviously they make you quite happy. However, we are talking about a situation where the OP is looking for 8 channels of pre for $1500 or less. Upon further review, his converters are Alesis Multimix!

APIs do not enter into this situation at all. Nor does whether or not Mick will let you test drive a DAV like KMR will.

Help the guy out already with some reasonable suggestions, instead of hijacking his thread.

Anyone else have anything useful to add, so that the OP doesn't come back today and go "what the fuck are these guys talking about $5K preamps in my thread for?"

/rant off

Ha, yeah, It would be nice to get things that I ask for, but this is the first thread where people haven't told me to go screw myself or something, so I'm pleased.

I get lost in half of the lingo in this thread anyways.


-Elliot

 

[kojdogg]

Alright, so I'm a noob, I state that every post I believe. So I'm not sure what you mean by converters and interface. SO umm. If you could explain that'd be great. Here's what I have for starters on gear, I'm not going to get to buying a preamp for a long while yet, so yeah. Yeah, I don't have much.


Mics:
a couple sm-57's and a vocal mic my friend is giving me that he says is damn good. (not sure of brand) one Behringer XM8500 and some shitty nady starpower thing.

MIXER: Alesis multimax 16 firewire mixer, I believe that's it.

Yeahhhhh, that's mainly it for now. I of course have some monitors, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the converters and such. They are m-audio studiophile monitors with the sub. I'll be using Cubase LE on my computer. Sorry I'm such a noob. Thanks for your help


-Elliot the noob

If you're starting a studio you might consider spreading the $ around. I might sell/return the multimax (multimix), and maybe do something like this: get the Focusrite Saffire pro 26i/o (8 preamps plus digital ins for $700), a set of mshilarious msh-1o's for about $50 shipped, a karma k-55 tube mic for about $200 shipped while they're on sale, a good kick/bass amp mic like a beta 52, a d112, or a d-6 for about $200 shipped... that's like $1150, and you have some $ left for other tom mics, or a good fet condenser, an fmr rnc or pro vla (both are compressors) or an sm7b which you could use for snare, rock vocals, guitar amp whatever. if you can get some $ for the alesis multimix, you could invest that in cabling, stands, acoustic baffling, etc.
Just an opinion-- I'm sure many would disagree.