PLEASE HELP...Mic for Strings

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pacello

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Ok, I have recorded cello with a Neumann TLM-103 and a U87, both of which yielded excellent results.

Now its time for me to buy some.

I need one or two...one single one for mono strings (recording a single cello), and the pair for a live string quartet.

Now, If I purchase a TLM103, which I have used and loved, I can only afford one. I don't necessarily need two, because recording the string quartet is not absolutely essential, although it would be nice.

I have looked at the AT4040, and AT4047, both of which had excellent reviews. I would rather buy two of one of these over the TLM103, just because I want to record in stereo, but only if they are as good as the TLM103.

Does anyone have any experience with recording strings on any of these mics? and If the AT's are good, should I go with the 4040s, or the 4047s? Are the 4047s worth the extra buck.

I also like the AT's, cause they come with Free shockmounts, Boom Stands, XLR cables, Earphones, and Shipping on EBAY.

And an added question for those of you with all the answers. I recorded a TLM-103 direct to Pro Tools Digi 002 rack, and it sounded amazing with no preamp. In fact, even when I used a good preamp, it sounded better without one. I am sure alot of it had to do with me not knowing how to use the preamp to its fullest, but I did like it without one because it was much simpler. My question: Should I be saving up my money for a good preamp (Im only recording single strings and a quartet), or are the DIGI 002 preamps good enough as they are?

PLEASE HELP!!
Thanks
 
For a stereo pair, small diaphragm condensers are usually recommended because they have a more even off-axis response than LDCs, which you mention. Do a search because we've talked about SDCs for stereo pairs several times lately.

You can start here:

http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=150732

There are older threads that are string-specific, but the mic choices are largely the same.
 
DPA 4011's is Yo Yo's mic. Can't go wrong with a pair of those.

Pair of AT4041's is phenomenal value. Very good mics.
 
Thanks for the info for the studio pair. I don't think I can afford Yo-Yo's mics, but the AT4041 are definitely a consideration. Since I would most definitely use those solely for a string quartet, is there another pair you would recommend as well just for comparison, or are the AT4041 the best for the job in that price range?

Also, would the AT4047 for solo cello sound as good as the Neumann TLM103, or should I spring for the Neumann?? Or should I get a good pair of small condensers and use them together for a solo cello instead of the 4047 or the TLM103??

Thanks again!
 
Try a matched pair of ADK Hamburgs if you decide on LDC's. I've gotten a very F-A-T sound on acoustic guitar with them. Another option to consider is a pair of Crown CM700's. If you'd like to hear clips of both sets of mics on acoustic guitar PM me and I'll send you a link. There are auctions below for both of the above mics. Good luck.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41466&item=7312341124&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41466&item=7311859101&rd=1
 
pacello said:
Ok, I have recorded cello with a Neumann TLM-103 and a U87, both of which yielded excellent results.

Now its time for me to buy some.

I need one or two...one single one for mono strings (recording a single cello), and the pair for a live string quartet.

Now, If I purchase a TLM103, which I have used and loved, I can only afford one. I don't necessarily need two, because recording the string quartet is not absolutely essential, although it would be nice.

I have looked at the AT4040, and AT4047, both of which had excellent reviews. I would rather buy two of one of these over the TLM103, just because I want to record in stereo, but only if they are as good as the TLM103.

Does anyone have any experience with recording strings on any of these mics? and If the AT's are good, should I go with the 4040s, or the 4047s? Are the 4047s worth the extra buck.

I also like the AT's, cause they come with Free shockmounts, Boom Stands, XLR cables, Earphones, and Shipping on EBAY.

And an added question for those of you with all the answers. I recorded a TLM-103 direct to Pro Tools Digi 002 rack, and it sounded amazing with no preamp. In fact, even when I used a good preamp, it sounded better without one. I am sure alot of it had to do with me not knowing how to use the preamp to its fullest, but I did like it without one because it was much simpler. My question: Should I be saving up my money for a good preamp (Im only recording single strings and a quartet), or are the DIGI 002 preamps good enough as they are?

PLEASE HELP!!
Thanks
Click to expand...

The TLM103 is a great mic and if you like it you should consider it over many of the cheaper mics only because the mic will stay with you and not become a roadblock in the future. There is something to be said of pro products if you can afford them. My suggestion is if you like the TLM103 than you should try the AT 4050 also. They are pretty similar in sound with the bonus of the extra patterns and settings in the 4050.

Now, for a complete change of thinking, have you considered a good ribbon mic? Ribbom mics are very compatable with stringed instruments and are still broad enough to be used on just about any kind of source. In the same $$$ catagory of the TLM103, you could probably get a Royer Labs R121 (~$1100)
or a few others. I don't know what is really available right now but if you do some research, you may find that the ribbon is right up your alley.

The best idea is to see if any stores are around your area and try some ribbons to see if they fit your idea of the sound you are trying to get.

Good Luck either way and the TLM103 is certainly a great mic if that is the way you want to go.
 
The big question is if you want to record in stereo. If the answer is yes, than I would say spring for a matched pair of SDC's.

AT4041 is an excellent mic at a sick price. They work great for classical music - maybe not the detail and transient response of DPA, but excellent nonetheless.
 
I've had excellent results recording cello with my AT4050. Nice and smooth and all the frequencies are right there. As always, take some time to find the right placement though!

- Jon M.
 
Hi,

I'm VERY new to recording though determined to have the best that I can afford to record what I do. I made a trip to a local shop to try microphones to record my own violin playing (I also do play with piano and chamber groups, but for testing in his shop, I just took my own violin and made some recordings and listened through headphones while I played).

I have the sound of the pre-digital, great analog recordings which still sound the silkiest and most detailed to my ears and that is what I want despite recording to a digital media (Presonus Firepod>PC Laptop). I quickly ruled out condenser microphones, as they seem to sound 'brittle, digital and too edgy' to my ears no matter what. (Though I didn't get to try high end Neumanns), but I ended up comparing some ribbon microphones: Royer SF-12, R-121, AEA R84, Nady(cheap mic, but good sound). By a good stretch, the SF-12 was my fave (rich, clear, silky, warm, and responsive) and believe it or not, the inexpensive Nady and AEA pretty much tied for second (again, to my ears and to those of another classically trained musician who was listening). The AEA was the most mellow and dark, but almost too much so. The Nady, was a little more 'true', though not as full and detailed sounding. The R-121 was ok, but too bright and a touch brittle compared to the others, though still preferable to all the condensers I've tried.

SO, with having had NO intention of spending anywhere near what it cost, I (who am usually fairly frugal) decided to splurge on the Royer. BUT now I find out that the Royer requires a great preamp (God help me, another 2,000 dollars???). I seem to like the Royer fine with my presonus firepod, but I do need to crank the gain up to the highest setting.

Good Luck.
 
ljmaxx said:
Try a matched pair of ADK Hamburgs if you decide on LDC's. I've gotten a very F-A-T sound on acoustic guitar with them. Another option to consider is a pair of Crown CM700's. If you'd like to hear clips of both sets of mics on acoustic guitar PM me and I'll send you a link. There are auctions below for both of the above mics. Good luck.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41466&item=7312341124&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41466&item=7311859101&rd=1
Click to expand...

I've used an ADK TC and an ADK Vienna on 'cello. Very nice results!

I'd suggest a pair of the ADK Vienna or Hamburg models.

In general, choosing LDCs or SDCs might depend on whether you want a flattering, thick rich tone (the ADK's would give you that) or a more accurate sound. Of course, there are exceptions to that rule (some LDCs are less colored, for example.)

Don
 
pacello said:
Now, If I purchase a TLM103, which I have used and loved, I can only afford one. I don't necessarily need two, because recording the string quartet is not absolutely essential, although it would be nice.
Thanks
Click to expand...

I recorded string trio with a pair of MXL 603s mics. You can hear a brief sample on my website: www.2fiddles.com

The musicians were happy with the recording, and the mics only cost about $200 for the pair. You might consider an inexpensive pair for the quartet and a really nice mic for the solo cello. If you did that you would be able to use the stereo pair for micing the room while recording the cello.

Bob
 
If it was me and the TLM103 gave me the sound I wanted for solo cello, I'd go with that and build up my mic cabinet from there. I think if early on in your recording experience you've happened upon a mic that pleases your ear so thoroughly, you're really lucky.

Alternatively, you could go to a studio that has some good small diaphragm condenser pairs and ribbon mic's and record some test tracks. Or rent them locally or from a service that mails them out to you. No matter how mic's are described verbally, you've got to hear them to know if they're right for you.

Good luck.

Tim
 
have you looked into earthworks?

classical is like home base for them
 
Earthworks...is that a company?

Good mics?

Thanks...I'll probably be too chicken to risk it and go for anything but the TLM103...I know it sounds good, and it has the reputation. My friend's got a good pair of AKG's that I can play around with...so Ill probably just end up saving for more so I can get a good studio pair.

Thanks so much guys...any information you have is extremely valuble to me!!
 
earthworks is something you should check out before you buy.

probably (i'd think) the 414 would do better than the neuman (blaspheme)
but as usual it depends on the instrument
 
until you can pony up for a dpa, get some earthworks.
classical is what they do.

as a violinist, i use an earthworks sr71 for live work, and a baby dpa 4060 when i need to go wireless.

since it seems you're recording classical why are you going to the
tlm103 as your first choice???
its reputation is NOT really for acoustic classical string stuff...
(especially ensembles)

in the neumann line something like the km183/km184 would be more suited...and even then there are better choices...

if you're already going to shell out $$ for a tlm103 based on "reputation", just pony up some more cash and get a dpa...i wouldn't even kid around at this point...and besides it's a bargain compared to the cost of our instruments anyways...

dpa and earthworks have the "reputation" for classical work.
besides, if i was interested in a tlm103 i'd probably get a gefell 930 instead.
 
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As far as the tlm103 and the 4047 go, I like the 4047 better on everything, including strings. I had a pair of tlm103's for a while but sold them. The 4047 is one of my favorite mics.

I would go for the 4047 or 4050 for all purpose stuff.
 
Just another thing...

I have just read about some Studio Projects mics, and they seem to have unbelievable reviews. In fact many people say that one of their 200 dollar mics (The C1), sounds just as good as a U87. Also, their other mics have unbelievable customer reviews at zzounds.

check this out:

http://www.vsplanet.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/001653.html

Just another rave review. Has anyone had any experience with these? If they are really truly as good as people say, I would love to save that money!!

Please help!

Patrick
 
pacello said:
In fact many people say that one of their 200 dollar mics (The C1), sounds just as good as a U87.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, haven't heard that before :rolleyes:

If you hadn't noticed, many of us are steering you towards small diaphragm mics, and the C1 is large. If you like, you could consider the C4.
 
if your looking at neuman and akg and earthworks i can deffinately say that studio projects is a step down, no matter how good they are "for the money"
 
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