pink noise, spectrum analyzers, and flattening

[cello_pudding]

hey, this is my first post here, what's happening...anyways...


i'm getting some pink noise from an engineer.

right now i don't have a spectrum analyzer, but i do have a long process to use one that is basically a visualization from wmp.


tell me what i am wrong about. here is my plan.

i will play the pink noise. record what my monitors put out with a condenser...and then look at the spectrum analyzer (taking off all eq's and plugins that the analyzer would be effected by) by that i can adjust my eq's and repeat the process untill my eq'd recorded file is as flat as the pink noise.

take that eq and save it and use it on all of my master bus's for the songs i make.


is that totally wrong? i get what the point of pink noise, but is that a decent process for utilizing it?

 

[Track Rat]

Sorry but that's totally wrong. There's no "one size fits all" EQ settings or we'd all be using it. Your ears (once trained) will get you WAY further on down the road.

 

[TexRoadkill]

Treat the room not the monitors. Your test will be colored by the mic, preamp and convertors and even IF you got a true reading you would only be correcting for that exact volume and mic position.

 

[cello_pudding]

but the error in my equipment is constant.

my ears don't know that...never will that's the point of pink noise

so am i gonna keep guessing or are you guys gonna tell me what i'm doing wrong?

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

It's not going to work....

Treat the room and get decent monitors.............

 

[cello_pudding]

"treating the room"

expand

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/titles/Acoustics1.htm

 

[kylen]

Pink noise, noise with equal power per octave, is a good reference point for setting up equipment - like running 'closed loop' type tests in your system (stuff you wouldn't listen to thru speakers).

You can also use pink noise (among other things) to assist with balancing the physical acoustics of your room as your speakers interact with the room and everything in it. Generally you use the noise and spectrum analyzer (among other things) as a guide to help you place acoustic treatments (including furniture) as well as positioning your speakers for optimal speaker/room interaction. The speaker/room variable is something that has to be handled before making any critical judgements needed for mixing or mastering.

I've tried balancing the room/speaker relationship with only an EQ (1/6 octave) and didn't like the results at all in the bass region (< 300 Hz). Speaker positioning and acoustic treatments worked way better for me.

Once the speaker/room variable is fixed (as much as possible - it won't be perfectly flat - probably within +/-9 dB ) then you can pipe the next variable thru your system out into the room - That's Your Music !

Anyway - Ethan Winer as well as SAE are 'The Man' on these topics like folks mentioned. Other than taking 3 or 4 months to learn about it I guess hiring someone would take it off your plate quicker. It's fun to do yourself - DIY

The point of it all is to get your recordings, mixes and masters to translate to any room or system in the shortest amount of [your] time. Sitting in a -20dB 100Hz null just won't let you balance that bass the way you should !

 

[cello_pudding]

yea, i get how to set up where you place your monitors and how the sounds will reflect off of the walls.

but that's not everything to the shape of your sound.

meh. i'm getting more help from other ppl.

and you would need to use a good mic...and not a directional one. you all have basically said that its not going to work yet real studios use pink noise to flatten their monitors.

i mean c'mone.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

you all have basically said that its not going to work yet real studios use pink noise to flatten their monitors.

No... they don't... because the good studios would know better..........

 

[Track Rat]

I'm in a "real" studio and I'd NEVER do that.

 

[lpdeluxe]

Pink noise won't flatten your monitor but it'll flatten your cat's ears.

 

[kylen]

yea, i get how to set up where you place your monitors and how the sounds will reflect off of the walls.

but that's not everything to the shape of your sound.

meh. i'm getting more help from other ppl.

and you would need to use a good mic...and not a directional one. you all have basically said that its not going to work yet real studios use pink noise to flatten their monitors.

i mean c'mone.

cello - we have a mis-communication here. For one thing I'm talking about bass (<300Hz) and for another thing I have no idea what pros do since I'm a garage guy (I have read what they say they do...). Here's my statement (see above) about using EQ to fix bass problems:

I've tried balancing the room/speaker relationship with only an EQ (1/6 octave) and didn't like the results at all in the bass region (< 300 Hz). Speaker positioning and acoustic treatments worked way better for me.

EQ may be a partial solution for you if you've already acoustically treated or otherwise accounted for the minimum necessary stuff like bass nulls/peaks, RT60, flutter, reflections. I don't use EQ devices to do that myself, I adjust the EQ (and other stuff) using physical objects - it's just a piece of input for you - nothing more, nothing less. I use nearfields too so there's another thing that helps eliminate some of the 'room'...

Good luck setting up your sound - it makes a world of difference, I'm sure you know, like a 'free' monitor upgrade actually !

 

[kylen]

...Also, hehe, lots of monitor have EQ switches on them so maybe you're talking about that too. The new Dynaudio AIR series and others have digital EQs built in...I'm not familiar with any of that at all - not one bit.

 

[cello_pudding]

oh agreed agreed.

always get the the physical things to work as best as you can...mic position...take care of standing waves and phase and get the best sound out of it.

i'm not talking about an eq on a single instrument or a single instrument's sound. i'm talking about the entire song.

when you master and bounce all of your tracks, you want to make them sound the least like you made them in your basement or where ever. you want the tone and volume of your songs to be in an over all unison so your cd's can measure up to professional ones.

but i think many of you record your stuff on your computer and listen to it on your computer and go yeah this sounds good. the goal is to make it sound good on any system and to identify the problems that your equipment has so you can fix it to a degree so it doesn't sound so crappy when you go to your friends house with your new cd you just burnt off.

 

[chessrock]

when you master and bounce all of your tracks, you want to make them sound the least like you made them in your basement or where ever.

Bad thinking. If your space sounds good, then you want it to sound like it was made there. If your space doesn't sound good, then you want to make it so it does.

That's kind of the model.

i think many of you record your stuff on your computer and listen to it on your computer and go yeah this sounds good.

Uh . . . hmmm . . . Guy, you really need to check the web sites / backgrounds of some of the guys who have been responding to you in this thread. Cello, you seem like a fairly sharp and intuitive fella . . . but from the sounds of things, you're still a bit green at this and are making some assumptions based on inexperience or just bad information.

You might want to sit back, humble yourself, and learn some things. Or not. Most of the guys like yourself don't, which is okay I guess. More people for me to torture and heckle.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

the goal is to make it sound good on any system and to identify the problems that your equipment has so you can fix it to a degree so it doesn't sound so crappy when you go to your friends house with your new cd you just burnt off.

True...... and you DON'T accomplish that by mucking up your monitoring chain with unnecessary EQ.

Considering I run a commercial studio, I happen to know a thing or two on the subject - and it's clear that you've still got a lot to learn -- you might want to take advantage of what people far more knowledgeable than yourself are telling you.......................

 

[kylen]

hehe - looks like you exceed the new-guy-knows-too-much threshold cello

After the initiation ceremony I think you can learn a lot at this forum - I have!

Don't feed the bears [and engineers] - it's all in good fun though, hehe.

 

[cello_pudding]

i'm learning nothing. i'm gonna put my trust in other ppl

"Reply:
Member: xarkzila contact this member
5-21-2004 8:17:03 AM
LOL... I would expect it's because they don't know how to use it. We regularly "tune" our control room and studio monitors. Different times of the year, experiencing ambient temperature changes, (not much humidity to worry about in Denver, but that affects it too,) and the simple ageing of speaker components and amplifier components can change the quality of sound that comes from your monitors. If you want to keep your product consistant, you'll tune your system. For us it's a matter of business so we take it seriously. For the average home recorder, however, it probably doesn't matter that much. "

"Reply:
Member: xarkzila contact this member
5-21-2004 1:28:12 PM
That's pretty much it, along with the fact that we do it commercially for money, We have a separate control room, isolated from the studio. The control room holds all the equipment, (except for studio racks which are there for clients to play with.) All electrical has isolated grounds. All the cabling for lines, mics, phones, etc., are run through ceiling conduits directly back to the control room. The studio space itself was acoustically engineered, (that is my discipline,) to eliminate standing waves, flutter echo, bass buildup, etc., and is not simply filled with foam, but a "live" space that has a character all its own. We have yet to have a dire need for an iso-booth as the studio lends itself wonderfully to vocals providing a very nice natural reverb.

I also have three engineers on staff. Another good indicator that this is NOT a home studio, even though it's in my home. While it may be a "part time" venture for me, (because I work a day job to finance it,) it isn't a part time thing for my engineers. This is all they do. I have final approval on all mixes, (I still hear things that my engineers don't,) and am pretty involved in the day to day operations, but I let my engineers do their thing and stay out of the way while they do the work I pay them to do.

We're just now beginning to get some recognition as a "natural" sounding space. Local A&R guys are contacting us, wanting to know how we're getting our "signature" sound. They're not quite believing that we barely EQ anything, don't compress or gate anything and don't effect anything. This is what I was after when I designed it. I want to record the sound as it really is and not screw it up with a bunch of plugins or outboard gear.

Word spreads quickly when you have something special. We have a European producer looking to base his mid-west operations out of our studio and in three more weeks a group from Africa is coming to the studio for a 2 week lockout.

Anyone can record a sound, but not everyone can get it to sound right. "

http://www.guitar.com/Discuss/readmsg.asp?showdates=&messageID=4161677&boardID=900

 

[chessrock]

You're making friends quick, I see, Jello head.


"Who's more foolish; the fool, or the fool who follows him?"

- Obe Wan Knobe


Reply:
Member: cello_pudding contact this member
5-21-2004 1:59:38 AM
i'm on this other board and all of them are like "i am smarter than you i never use pink noise cuz i'm that awesome"

whatever i'm still gonna use it...i'm back home from college so....yeah