Piano recording- what mic?

[Fletcher]

did you find the stapes mics to have the same price to performance ratio with most applications or just piano's?

The two applications where I tried the Stapes were on piano and "room" when cutting drums... they shined in no uncertain terms in both applications. I didn't have a boatload of time with them... but the time spent made me quite a fan.

 

[geekgurl]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, OK. I know what it is now.


Most definately! Placement is going to be crucial!


I'll go along with that; a small diameter condenser will probably serve you best at this point.
I have a recording... somewhere, using the 603's. I thought the SM81's were a better choice though.

Hey Michael (or anyone else),

Have you ever tried the AT 4041s? I tried them on piano once and thought they were very detailed, but I didn't have the opportunity to compare ("same piano, same day, different mics" type of comparison) to SM81s and MXL 603s. I ultimately ended up with a pair of 603s for budgetary reasons (just seemed most versatile for overheads and acoustic guitar ... I mainly use 'em for overheads, actually), but I'm curious for future additions to the mic cabinet.

BTW, I wouldn't worry about the MBox. It's a nice interface, and I like using Pro Tools so you'll get no complaints from me (I have a Digi 001, not the MBox). Only thing with the MBox though is that you can record only 2 channels at once. Don't know if that's a limitation for you. (For example, I couldn't use it to record drums because I like to use at least 3 mics, ideally 4).

 

[DJL]

The Stapes I used last time I cut piano are like $300/pr... and they beat mics costing 20X as much for the application. All due respect to the budget world of Chinese mics [buy 6 you get egg roll?]... but these little puppies are very possibly the best value I've ever met in professional audio. As always, YMMV

Yeah I agree, screw the cheap Chinese mic's...... hey, are those Stapes mic's still only about $300 a pair?

geekgurl, I don't have an A/B you can hear.... but IMO, the SM81's are nicer than the 603S's on piano.

 

[Orpheus]

michael jones,

were all 4 samples recorded in same position, just with different mics? or you changed mic positions?

 

[laptoppop]

The Stapes mics are modified versions of the tapeop diy microphones. Not bad, but unless they've done something magical, hardly worth $300/pair. High self noise is the biggest problem with inexpensive small diaphram condensors. I'd bet you that if you put the $35 Behringer ecm8000 microphones up right next to the Stapes microphones, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

For $200. you can get a matched stereo pair of MXL603s with shock mounts from 8th street. For $369., you can get a matched stereo pair of Studio Projects C4s with both omni and cardiod capsules. For just shy of $700. you can get a killer matched pair of Octava MC012 mics with all of the heads from the sound room. Lots of great options in the small diaphram condensor arena!

(Yah, I know the 603's are slightly larger than what many would call "small" diaphram -- but they still work great in most of the same circumstances.)

-lee-

 

[Michael Jones]

- Geekgurl, I don't have any AT mics.
**hangs head in shame
(I have a pretty good mic locker, but none of them have those letters on them)


- Orpheus, after each description of the samples, I was going to add "Ask me about mic positions." But I didn't want to sound cocky.
Suffice it to say: Each sample represents a flavour. Each flavour requires not only mic selection, but position as well.

I can go into specifics if you like, but IN GENERAL, I use closer micing techniques to isolate the piano sound from the... average sounding acoustics of the room.

The SD condensers are generally set further away from the source than the LD condensers. I abhor pedal noise, so my positioning is set to minimize that. I do so by basically making the mike reject that sound from the dampers by setting it off axis to the dampers.
Everything is done in stereo, and on such a big source, phase anamolies are of utmost concern, and eliminating those can actually dictate mic placement.

The omnis tend to pick up more of a room sound anyway, so fighting that is kind of senseless; making their positioning the furthest from the source.

I have detailed notes on each set-up so, if you want to know more, just ask. It can get.... verbose though.

I have experimented ad nausem with micing this piano, and those are some of the better sounds I have been able to record. Now that I know this room, I'll have to re-learn how to record this piano, when I get into the new space.

 

[DJL]

laptoppop, thank you for the info on the Stapes mics.

 

[laptoppop]

In all fairness to the Stapes mic folks - they admit it right up front on their website. They are pretty vague about their modification. I'd like them to say more, but they are probably afraid of copies.

But.... the parts for the original omni small diaphram condensor were about $20. The primary drawback was that it couldn't use phantom power - it had a battery. Easy thing to rectify in the circuit.

The other problem was a pretty high self noise. Even on their website, they admit that their microphones are pretty noisy, so they haven't addressed that.

From Harvey, I believe I learned that the body of an omni small diaphram condensor doesn't affect the sound much - so that's not an issue.

The Behringer ECM 8000 is a VERY inexpensive microphone - also a small diaphram omni condensor with a VERY flat frequency response -- one of the very nice values around.

I'm not trying to slam them (ok, at least not too hard ), but if they haven't addressed the noise issue, I just don't see where they have added much value.

-lee-