PA beginner to bars...where's the beef?

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CoolCat

CoolCat

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I'm confused. I have slapped together a misfit ROSS PA, a 400watt mixer/head unit to a speaker cabinet, Radio Shack 15"/horn.
It is vocals only.


Problem- the volume isn't there at all?

is it the head or speaker? seems 400watts should be more than enough?

the mic is a standard 58 ripoff...copy.

I'm leaning to the speaker, will a speaker change increase the volume?

here's a pic
 

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SM58's are low impedance, so you need to use an XLR to XLR cable for it. I hope you're doing that and not using a XLR to 1/4" cable.

Try plugging another source (electric guitar) into it to see if that's the same.
 
er....oops...got a xlr to 1/4".....

thanks....

what else? I'm posting to trade or put some cash ($100) into the deal if I should get another passive speaker for volume increase or sell the whole thing and go Active Cab (already have a small Yammie Mixer)

I'll try the mic right away...

Its for my sons band and they get pretty loud....Fender 60watt amp and full drum set , not much for bass yet he needs a loud amp.

their starting to gig at larger places and more often...sometimes the house has a nice PA...but not always, so they want something decent...but have no money. just soem old accumulated crap around here...not crap, its just more home practice stuff.
 
damn!

that cable seemed to have quadrupled the volume!!!

wow?

i'm in shock at the difference. of course now I can't barely turn the amplifier up with out feed back....but I'll work on that.

thanks so much! so the amplifier is cool. probably try to upgrade the speakers with some trading...and cash.

thats amazing..just ran a comparison test to show this, and the 1/4 mic cable had the power amp on full blast....with the XLR on both ends, the amp is at 25% its squealing...with eq up to 40% in this small room its loud!!....wow.
 
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When you plug into the XLR jack on your pa it goes through some additional electronics that boost the volume that the 1/4" jack doesn't have. It isn't just two jacks that are the same.

Good it's working. :)
 
i always thought XLR was just a long run, noise cable...

its not just a slight change, the cable was a 75% change.

we're both really surprised it was that drastic!
 
A more detailed explanation, Coolcat, is that the XLR connection goes to a pre-amp first, then to the power amp, also inside the PA head. The pre-amp boost the signal to a level the power amp can better use. The "line" input is for devices like a keyboard or CD player that puts out a stronger signal than most microphones do. There's more to it than that, but that covers the basics.
 
Your also going to want those speakers up on some stands! you want to get the high end horn about one foot above anyone in the room and in doing so your sound won't get lost in the crowd.
And at practice it will help as well and you don't have to turn it up much ...... that reduction in volume and the fact that it's up in the air you won't be get that nasty feedback.
Beside people don't have ears anywhere on there body from the waist down. ;)







:cool:
 
Cheap mics are always going to result in nasty feedback. So what do you do? Turn down the hi's and end up with a "woofy" vocal sound. Not good. I would suggest at least 1 good mic for the lead singer.
A Shure BETA 58 is a great choice. Maybe $100 on Ebay. The Electro Voive N/D 767a is another great one. Maybe $50-75 on Ebay.
 
That Radio Shack speaker with three piezo tweeters has the potential to clear a room real fast! :eek:

The woofer probably isn't half bad. Companies use piezo tweeters because they require no crossover, so it makes a cheap setup. We used to stuff black socks in piezo tweeters as usually speakers with them have way too much treble compared to bass.

I had some Peavey 12" + piezo tweeter speakers that were much better after I installed Radio Shack speaker volume pots on the tweeters so I could run them at maybe 1/3 the output they ran at normally.

But for starting out it's a lot better than I had. :)
 
I would get rid of the mixer/head... I don't trust combo units. Never did. I like my mixing, amps, processing, and speakers separate.

Get a dedicated mixer, get a dedicated amp, and some nice passive speakers... On the cheap I put together a beautiful passive system. My first passive system cost me about 200 bucks. Small behri mixer, gemsound amp and two phonic speakers... did the job for a while.

This route I was able to upgrade one thing at a time. First it was the mixer, then amps, then speakers, then amps again.
 
Pony! said:
I would get rid of the mixer/head... I don't trust combo units. Never did. I like my mixing, amps, processing, and speakers separate...
Click to expand...

A bit extreme, dontcha think? The WORST that could happen is it goes out and needs to be replaced. The possibility of it taking the speaker with it is very remote. A mixer-amp is a good way to get into a PA without spending a lot of money, and is going to be more compact and easier to cart around.

Let the guy enjoy his gear.
 
stevieb said:
A bit extreme, dontcha think? The WORST that could happen is it goes out and needs to be replaced. The possibility of it taking the speaker with it is very remote. A mixer-amp is a good way to get into a PA without spending a lot of money, and is going to be more compact and easier to cart around.

Let the guy enjoy his gear.
Click to expand...

Indeed. A combo box is usually the easiest and most cost effective entry into a basic PA. Walk before you run and all that.
 
stevieb said:
A bit extreme, dontcha think? The WORST that could happen is it goes out and needs to be replaced. The possibility of it taking the speaker with it is very remote. A mixer-amp is a good way to get into a PA without spending a lot of money, and is going to be more compact and easier to cart around.

Let the guy enjoy his gear.
Click to expand...

Yes, that was total bullshit advice.
 
A bigger concern is the tone you'll get. I'm a big fan of midrange speakers. Not horns, but 6's, 8's and 10's. the human voice clocks in between the 3-5000hz range.
The tweeters are designed for above 5000 and the 15 could possibly do it IF they were EVM's, but not those.
Listen to any CD made after 1980. The vocals are crisp. Maybe a little warm, but not muddy or boomy and not screechy shrill.

If you can't afford to make good cabs with 6's & or 10's, look into the Fender Passport series PA's. Not too expensive, but they have stellar vocal reproduction. The 250 series is what I have. If you are fighting 100 watt tube amps, get the 500 series.

Remember, about 90% of an audience doesn't care about guitars, They want to hear a killer beat and most of all-the singer.
Hope that helps.
 
a lot of great inputs.

the speaker goes up off the floor tonight, also interesting about the tweeter an d the vocal....

this is for vocal only, not micing the band and all that...just vocals so maybe I'll unplug the piezo...

the drummers working now so maybe they can come up with some money to drop on speakers.

the 400watt mixer head also has line in only (straight to amplifier) and there's a nice little Yammie 12x2 laying around, will try that.
 
COOLCAT said:
this is for vocal only, not micing the band and all that...just vocals so maybe I'll unplug the piezo.
Click to expand...

Don't unplug the piezo. If that's the only source of high frequency, the vocals will sound awful. If the piezo is too screechy, dampen it with a sock or something.
 
COOLCAT said:
the 400watt mixer head also has line in only (straight to amplifier) and there's a nice little Yammie 12x2 laying around, will try that.
Click to expand...

Oh, man, you are SET, once you get a couple of speakers. I might suggest 10's or 12's, and use that 15 as a sub- but don't worry about another power amp, cross-over, etc., just let the speaker and it's crossover do what it can. If you find the amp is not giving enough for some of the venues that you need to use it in, you might want to go with a powered sub, which would run off the mixer amp's pre-amp out, and allow the mixer amp's power amp to only have to drive the 10's or 12's.

As an alternative, since you already have a board, you could sell the mixer amp and buy a power amp. With a little luck, it might be a zero-sum deal.

If I remember correctly, you can probably go from the 12-channel mixer to the line in of the mixer/amp, AND use the input channels of the mixer/amp- IF you need that many inputs.
 
thanks everyone for great inputs...

haha,...more inputs...they only have one mic at the moment for vocals only, nice and simple.

we tried another power amp that was 200watts bridged, but it didn't have enough power....but then I wasn't aware of which cable.

i'll keep searching craigslist for a couple cheap PA speakers...
 
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