sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
All things being equal, what would you choose and why?
mastercontrolme
New member
All things being equal, I would go MTR-10 based on it's looks. It also seems to have a very nice transport and I'm sure it must sound great. Of course if space is a premium, the BR-20 would be much easier to find space for due to it's more compact size.
evm1024
New member
Tape project
Don't know anything avout the Otari.... As you know I'm a big fan of the BR-20. Nice out of the box and moddable.
The tape project has some nice things to say about the BR-20. The standard TP deck is a Technics with custom tube playback amps. TP tapes are sub masters generated on an ATR-102 if I recall correctly. The Holy Grail of TP are the Ampex decks.
Here is one post on the BR:
http://www.tapeproject.com/smf/index.php/topic,1013.0.html
Lots of things to read about there....
-Ethan
Don't know anything avout the Otari.... As you know I'm a big fan of the BR-20. Nice out of the box and moddable.
The tape project has some nice things to say about the BR-20. The standard TP deck is a Technics with custom tube playback amps. TP tapes are sub masters generated on an ATR-102 if I recall correctly. The Holy Grail of TP are the Ampex decks.
Here is one post on the BR:
http://www.tapeproject.com/smf/index.php/topic,1013.0.html
Lots of things to read about there....
-Ethan
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
There's an MTR-10 locally. They are asking $450. It needs cleanup and I have no idea as of yet the condition of the heads.
I have the MTR-10 manual but sans schematics from Analog Rules so I don't know what rails the amp electronics run on but I see that the PSU outputs +/-26V, and +42V to name a couple. No 15V or 18V so I'm assuming the amp electronics run on the 26V rails...Why am I going there? I dunno...I just know that the sound quality of one of the electronics modules on my Ampex 440 blew me away and certainly it has much to do with much and not just the fact that they are discreet and run on +39V...but conversation with Ampex List folks confirmed that the higher voltage has an effect in performance.
The MTR-10 has a scary amount of adjustments available which can be good and bad.
The "specs" are scary...yes spec sheets can be a scary thing if that's all you base things on but it is pretty hard to ignore 18Hz ~ 27kHz +0.5/-2dB at 15ips...or 79dB s/n ratio without noise reduction, the optiion of 30ips and the ability to "upgrade" to 1/2" 1/2-track (for a price of course...but it'll do it).
I've heard good and "bland" about the MTR-10 but the latter certainly could have been coming from a snobbish camp.
If I went with the MTR-10 I'd have to sell my BR-20T...it has the 3rd timecode track feature which, though not essential, is pretty nice. My BR-20T is a known commodity, is in 8/10 condition but the heads show wear. Not beyond hope at all but definitely show use.
The MTR-10 definitely appears to be a step up in "professional" features and construction but that may mean nothing for my setting.
It is reported to be fully functional, pulled from a working environment, no manual or other accessories except for reel adapters.
I have the MTR-10 manual but sans schematics from Analog Rules so I don't know what rails the amp electronics run on but I see that the PSU outputs +/-26V, and +42V to name a couple. No 15V or 18V so I'm assuming the amp electronics run on the 26V rails...Why am I going there? I dunno...I just know that the sound quality of one of the electronics modules on my Ampex 440 blew me away and certainly it has much to do with much and not just the fact that they are discreet and run on +39V...but conversation with Ampex List folks confirmed that the higher voltage has an effect in performance.
The MTR-10 has a scary amount of adjustments available which can be good and bad.
The "specs" are scary...yes spec sheets can be a scary thing if that's all you base things on but it is pretty hard to ignore 18Hz ~ 27kHz +0.5/-2dB at 15ips...or 79dB s/n ratio without noise reduction, the optiion of 30ips and the ability to "upgrade" to 1/2" 1/2-track (for a price of course...but it'll do it).
I've heard good and "bland" about the MTR-10 but the latter certainly could have been coming from a snobbish camp.
If I went with the MTR-10 I'd have to sell my BR-20T...it has the 3rd timecode track feature which, though not essential, is pretty nice. My BR-20T is a known commodity, is in 8/10 condition but the heads show wear. Not beyond hope at all but definitely show use.
The MTR-10 definitely appears to be a step up in "professional" features and construction but that may mean nothing for my setting.
It is reported to be fully functional, pulled from a working environment, no manual or other accessories except for reel adapters.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
It looks like this...
jedblue
beep beep beep beep beep
BR-20T. Space. Wife.
There's been at least 3 of the MTR-10's come up on eBay close by in the last twelve months. Usually they have gone for less than $250. I have been sorely tempted however, being as large as they are, I have never figured out how to make them invisible to the wife upon arrival.
Overkill for my needs.
There's been at least 3 of the MTR-10's come up on eBay close by in the last twelve months. Usually they have gone for less than $250. I have been sorely tempted however, being as large as they are, I have never figured out how to make them invisible to the wife upon arrival.
Overkill for my needs.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Well, environmental and social issues aren't really a concern...so...outside of THOSE issues what would you do? You say overkill but why?
jedblue
beep beep beep beep beep
Ah Cory, 18Hz ~ 27kHz? True, that's a heck of a range. I've got an REL Stentor sub on my lounge room hi-fi along with a set of Vienna Acoustic Mozarts that can get down that low but that'd be it. I can't hear anything above 17kHz so I don't know what I'd do with that last 10kHz up there. Mostly I high pass at 28Hz in final form anyway.
S/N? Well, I'm just close listening to a cd compilation of all the old Spector Phillies records on my studio monitors that was recently released and mastered at Gateway. It's way up around +8 db peak level on my hi fi meters and it's got no dynamics. It's s/n appears to be about zero but they're still great recordings - all but one recorded in mono in their original form. I don't see any great advantage in the s/n over what I've already got. There's a little hiss with what I produce on them given that I don't use NR anywhere but unless you're listening for it, you don't notice it. And Lonely Few music is just a big clanging mess anyway. The old valve amplifers hiss and the snare sympathetically rattles more than anything the recorders are doing.
I guess in the end there's nothing I'm doing in the analog world that my PR99, MX-5050 and Nagra IV combo can handle so I'm resisiting all urges to spend on more recording equipment and am saving up the pennies for three nice mikes - one LDC and 2 smalls. That's going to be a big enough bucket of loot.
Then that's it. I'm done (well, maybe, there's always a few more 'instruments' to get hold of).
Lonely Few is going to stay as two track 1/4" and I just don't have the space for the ex ABC 1" 8 track Otari MX-70 that's still knocking around here for sale at a reasonable price that has been really tempting me. I've got no place to put it and I'd never use it anyway. Common sense has overruled that particular desire.
I can still get bits okay for all three of my recorders off eBay. Look't all them cards in that MTR-10.
So in the end, just a pragmatic assessment of where I'm at, what I need and why I guess. If one of my existing recorders was a BR-20T I reckon I'd be damned happy about that too. If I'd hooked up one of those MTR's and the MX-70, I reckon I'd be "living alone with my gear" by now, ahem.
No reasons for you not to got get it if you want to though.
Geoff
S/N? Well, I'm just close listening to a cd compilation of all the old Spector Phillies records on my studio monitors that was recently released and mastered at Gateway. It's way up around +8 db peak level on my hi fi meters and it's got no dynamics. It's s/n appears to be about zero but they're still great recordings - all but one recorded in mono in their original form. I don't see any great advantage in the s/n over what I've already got. There's a little hiss with what I produce on them given that I don't use NR anywhere but unless you're listening for it, you don't notice it. And Lonely Few music is just a big clanging mess anyway. The old valve amplifers hiss and the snare sympathetically rattles more than anything the recorders are doing.
I guess in the end there's nothing I'm doing in the analog world that my PR99, MX-5050 and Nagra IV combo can handle so I'm resisiting all urges to spend on more recording equipment and am saving up the pennies for three nice mikes - one LDC and 2 smalls. That's going to be a big enough bucket of loot.
Then that's it. I'm done (well, maybe, there's always a few more 'instruments' to get hold of).
Lonely Few is going to stay as two track 1/4" and I just don't have the space for the ex ABC 1" 8 track Otari MX-70 that's still knocking around here for sale at a reasonable price that has been really tempting me. I've got no place to put it and I'd never use it anyway. Common sense has overruled that particular desire.
I can still get bits okay for all three of my recorders off eBay. Look't all them cards in that MTR-10.
So in the end, just a pragmatic assessment of where I'm at, what I need and why I guess. If one of my existing recorders was a BR-20T I reckon I'd be damned happy about that too. If I'd hooked up one of those MTR's and the MX-70, I reckon I'd be "living alone with my gear" by now, ahem.
No reasons for you not to got get it if you want to though.
Geoff
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jedblue
beep beep beep beep beep
double post somehow...
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
I imagine it was a punctuation mark (the double-post)...those are all good reasons not to do it.
*sigh*
So that's why I put it up here...to get a dose of relativity so thanks all...also emailed a good friend to get his opinion and he concurs.
The seller emailed pics of the heads tonight which made it easy to walk away from it:
It looks like there is more wear on the repro head and both heads look like the wear is uneven...the grooves in the lifters and the burnished flutter filter are telling of the mileage too. Do you concur or am I too picky?
My BR-20T heads are pretty worn too but the wear looks happier than that MTR-10...what do you all think?
Wish the 3-track heads for the BR-20T weren't so spendy...
*sigh*
So that's why I put it up here...to get a dose of relativity so thanks all...also emailed a good friend to get his opinion and he concurs.
The seller emailed pics of the heads tonight which made it easy to walk away from it:
It looks like there is more wear on the repro head and both heads look like the wear is uneven...the grooves in the lifters and the burnished flutter filter are telling of the mileage too. Do you concur or am I too picky?
My BR-20T heads are pretty worn too but the wear looks happier than that MTR-10...what do you all think?
Wish the 3-track heads for the BR-20T weren't so spendy...
JRSIV
JRSIV Music Ltd.
Cory, maybe it's because I watched "Hoarders" on my DVR tonight, but I'm feeling a little claustrophobic in my own space. But when I think of your current projects and equipment...
The Otari looks rough, I think you made the right decision. I'd like to see your 388 project put to bed. Focus my boy!!
The Otari looks rough, I think you made the right decision. I'd like to see your 388 project put to bed. Focus my boy!!
jedblue
beep beep beep beep beep
Hah Cory, your BR-20T looks like my Otari 5050 - well used and highly experienced. Maybe not so deep and flat as yours yet, but getting there.
But the Otari sounds just fine despite it's apparent wear. And I'd say it's spent most of its life using tape with different dimensions than the SM911 I use based on how it sheds the oxide off the edges when I use it. The Revox doesn't do that and nor does the Nagra but it makes no difference to the sound nor does it damage the tapes when I put them back on the PR99 so I'm going to let it run.
One day I'll pluck up the courage to disassemble the Otari's head assembly and rotate all the guides. I figure that'll reduce the shedding.
G
But the Otari sounds just fine despite it's apparent wear. And I'd say it's spent most of its life using tape with different dimensions than the SM911 I use based on how it sheds the oxide off the edges when I use it. The Revox doesn't do that and nor does the Nagra but it makes no difference to the sound nor does it damage the tapes when I put them back on the PR99 so I'm going to let it run.
One day I'll pluck up the courage to disassemble the Otari's head assembly and rotate all the guides. I figure that'll reduce the shedding.
G
evm1024
New member
Heads
So Cory,
Bring that BR-20 up sometime this fall and we'll lap those heads and align the deck. Rain outside, Hot coffee and head lapping. What else are Saturdays for?
-Ethan
So Cory,
Bring that BR-20 up sometime this fall and we'll lap those heads and align the deck. Rain outside, Hot coffee and head lapping. What else are Saturdays for?
-Ethan
O
ofajen
Daddy-O Daddy-O Baby
I'd probably pick the one that is the same brand as one or more of my other recorders. There tends to be a similarity in terms of maintenance and operation among recorders of the same brand. Helps keep life simpler.
I'm probably about to buy some kind of Otari. If that happens, then my choice here would be for the MTR-10, I suppose.
Cheers,
Otto
I'm probably about to buy some kind of Otari. If that happens, then my choice here would be for the MTR-10, I suppose.
Cheers,
Otto
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Oh MAN!
I will be following up on that. That sounds AWESOME, Ethan. Thanks!
Otto, that's a good point...Everything is Teac here except for the Ampex 440. The advice is overwhelmingly to stick with the BR-20T...So many reasons and, again, I appreciate everybody weighing in with thoughts from both sides of the fence...primed me for when those pictures of the headblock came. It wasn't just the wear patterns and mileage on the heads, but the interior of the shield cans layered with oxide dust, the dirty guides...maybe I'm slowing down but A. it looked like a lot of work and part of that effort would include acclimating to a new manufacturer (which I'm going through with the Ampex...interesting but intensive) and B. I do indeed have plenty of fun projects to keep me busy already, and they're still fun. I can see the Otari sending me into "this isn't fun anymore" land and that's a bad spot...no fun, and a lake of torn-apart gear with no motivation. Ugh. See, guys? I can learn...and sometimes focus (tip-o-the-hat to you, John).
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cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
+1 to everyone who urged sweets against the purchase..
.....................
Seriously, +1 to walking away, +1 to the BR-20, +1 to the head relap (awesome Ethan!), +1 to focus..
.....................
Seriously, +1 to walking away, +1 to the BR-20, +1 to the head relap (awesome Ethan!), +1 to focus..
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
And that makes +4 dBu (Don't Buy Unwisely)
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
LOL!! Good one!