optical vs. analog outs

[heatmiser]

Ok, so I have a Roland VS2400 workstation. It has a built in CDR for burning "master" discs and that is how I create my final product and also how I have a way to tranfer tunes to my PC for sharing online.

The disc drive is the one unreliable part of this unit, and every few months, it just starts giving me "operation failed" errors and won't write to disc or load anything from a disc. Projects can't be backed up and get lost which is frustrating.

Normally reformatting the drive and/or simply changing to another brand of CDRs will temporarily fix this, but not always. During the down times, I burn a disc of my "master" using a Sony CD recorder from the '90's. It has both analog CDR inputs (RCA plugs L&R) and optical in/out jacks - I never used those.

Should I go out and get an optical cable? I've never used one and assume it will transmit the same stereo info through the single cable that the dual 1/4" > RCA cables do now, but do you think the quality might improve?

The Roland has all kinds of outputs including optical and I'm just looking for the best sounding alternative to burning discs internally within the unit itself. I guess I don't really know where the A/D or D/A (?) conversion is taking place with this set up and not sure this choice makes a difference in terms of fidelity?

 

[miroslav]

I would say that with the optical....you skip two conversions... D/A---A/D ....and you will send the digital audio directly to the CDR for burning.

You might hear an improvement.

 

[Chili]

Have you considered going straight to your PC for burning CD's instead of an outboard cd burner?? You can use either the optical out or the RCA digital out and keep it all digital. You would need a card in your computer for the digital inputs, but I know someone who will sell you one cheap!! Cheap as in Free.

 

[fat_fleet]

Or you could bounce to cassette...

 

[mixsit]

Light pipe optical is fairly inexpensive in short lengths (eight ch ADAT and stereo use the same) and it would skip the additional D/A and A/D conversion.
I'd ask is there a way to save the track to a 16bit 44.1 wave file and copy it to the system that's burning the disk- but that's only for helping if there's reliability problem with streaming it in real time over the diggi connection.

 

[heatmiser]

Thanks for the replies!

I would say that with the optical....you skip two conversions... D/A---A/D ....and you will send the digital audio directly to the CDR for burning.

You might hear an improvement.

Ok, that makes sense. I think it's worth a try anyway as the cables don't look to be really expensive. I checked online, but have never looked for those cables in stores...are they common? The latest project I did sounded kind of bad after the final conversion, although there could be other factors...

Have you considered going straight to your PC for burning CD's instead of an outboard cd burner?? You can use either the optical out or the RCA digital out and keep it all digital. You would need a card in your computer for the digital inputs, but I know someone who will sell you one cheap!! Cheap as in Free.

See, everything I know and have read indicates that you can't transfer files directly from this Roland to a PC. I've checked VS Planet and other sites and there were a few tales of crazy mods done to make it work, but it was way over my head.

Even if it were possible, our one PC is in an entirely different part of the house so it would just be physically too difficult if not impossible. It sounds simple though, doesn't it? Just connect it to the PC damn it!

Or you could bounce to cassette...

I'm holding on to my still wrapped XLII tapes just in case they catch on again!

Light pipe optical is fairly inexpensive in short lengths (eight ch ADAT and stereo use the same) and it would skip the additional D/A and A/D conversion.
I'd ask is there a way to save the track to a 16bit 44.1 wave file and copy it to the system that's burning the disk- but that's only for helping if there's reliability problem with streaming it in real time over the diggi connection.

Well, I mean the Roland can create projects from 16-24 bit and up to 98(?)k I think I usually use 24 - 48 for my projects, but in the end, it must be converted to 16 44.1 when it burns to disc, as that is the CD standard, right?

This thing can do the whole mastering deal...all the track info and redbook format and whatever. I can store the shit forever except inevitably I get tired of not being able to burn to disc and just reformat the whole thing and lose the projects. My problem is transferring them to a physical disc. I know CDs aren't that important to a lot of people these days, but that's how I listen to most music and that's how I rip MP3s to upload online for feedback and sharing.

Having to burn everything to a disc when collaborating sure is a pain though. It's slow and you burn through a lot of CDRs!

The thing about this connection that really bugs me though is that after spending all this time meticulously setting the levels with a limiter during the "mastering" phase in the Roland, I save my stereo master, and when I burn a disc internally, I don't have to worry about levels once again...they are set as I left them. With this process going to the Sony through the analog inputs, I have to once again set the levels for the signal to the CD recorder using one of those little 1 cm wide knobs labeled "REC LVL" like on a stereo tape deck. It seems so arbitrary and I can't really tell what I'm doing anymore with those tiny VU meters.

I think maybe if I used the digital optical cable it might retain the level settings from the Roland and not require me to set them once again...does that sound reasonable?

 

[mixsit]

I think maybe if I used the digital optical cable it might retain the level settings from the Roland and not require me to set them once again...does that sound reasonable?

I would think so, 0dBFS the same at both devices..?
I looked for vs2400 'file backup thinking that would be a way get and transfer them, yikes the cd burner's it?
This guy's apparently pulled the drive and put in his pc (fat32)
external backup device for vs 2400cd - VS-Planet Forums

 

[Bobbsy]

Regarding the original problem of the failing CD drive, have you tried cleaning the lens on that drive? If you're confident doing small repairs, you can just do it yourself but, if not, a disk you insert to do the job is only $5-$10. No guarantee this'll help but for the money it might be worth trying.

 

[heatmiser]

I would think so, 0dBFS the same at both devices..?
I looked for vs2400 'file backup thinking that would be a way get and transfer them, yikes the cd burner's it?
This guy's apparently pulled the drive and put in his pc (fat32)
external backup device for vs 2400cd - VS-Planet Forums

Thanks...yes, the CD burner is it.

Thanks for the link. I've actually read through that post many times and it was just too intimidating!

Regarding the original problem of the failing CD drive, have you tried cleaning the lens on that drive? If you're confident doing small repairs, you can just do it yourself but, if not, a disk you insert to do the job is only $5-$10. No guarantee this'll help but for the money it might be worth trying.

Thanks. I am not confident, but I am comfortable spending 5-10 bucks if there's any chance that might help! Good idea anyway. I'll try it.

 

[DM60]

I just researched this for my neighbor. Here is the solution I am proposing to him (this is Reaper he will be using). His machine is a VS880 (If I remember correctly and Roland use a proprietary file format. Haven't tried it yet but will soon.

I am going to take the IDE drive out of the Roland, using a plugin for Reaper read the tracks off of the Roland drive using an IDE/USB adapter, bring the tracks into Reaper, finish mixing or simply bounce, burn done.

Looks good on paper anyway. Key here is, IDE/USB (I think the Roland's have two screws for the hard drive) and the conversion program. Here is the thread for the plugin link:roland-vs-file-converter

Hope this adds to your options.

 

[heatmiser]

Thanks DM60...I'm reading through some of the links and posts now...

The 880 doesn't have CD drive built in, does it?

By IDE drive, you're talking about the hard drive? So, it will need to be removed each time you want to upload to the PC/Reaper?

 

[DM60]

Thanks DM60...I'm reading through some of the links and posts now...

The 880 doesn't have CD drive built in, does it?

By IDE drive, you're talking about the hard drive? So, it will need to be removed each time you want to upload to the PC/Reaper?

No, it just has the hard drive, it does have a SCSI port, but SCSI is a pain so the IDE/USB seems like the easiest solution. The approach I am thinking of extends the life of the recorder until he gets more comfortable with moving to DAWs and computers, plus its pretty portable.

 

[Farview]

Isn't there a usb output on that thing, or is it older than that. On the later ones, you can just export the files to a computer with a use cable.

 

[heatmiser]

Isn't there a usb output on that thing, or is it older than that. On the later ones, you can just export the files to a computer with a use cable.

No, there's no USB output I'm afraid. It was built in 1999 or so. Really amazing and does pretty much everything I want other than this issue. Even the jacks for the mouse and monitor use those old, round plugs rather than the flatter ones used today.

The only outputs I have are a pair of 1/4" monitor outs, a pair of 1/4" master outs, 2 pairs of 1/4" AUX outputs (probably for external FX, but I've never used them), a coaxial out (no idea?) and the optical out.