Oktava, Mk012 for drum overheads

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studiodrum

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I was thinking about picking up a matched pair of Oktava, MC012 condensers for drum overheads, and I was just curious if their quality control has gotten any better recently . . .

Also, what CAPSULE would work best for overhead drum mics, (cardioid, hyper, or the omni) and I guess that I would need the 10db pad too?

Does anyone know where to pick up a pair of these for a good price?

Thanks guys!
 
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If you want a MATCHED pair, The Sound Room is about the only place I know of that matches them up and advertises them as such. You'll drop about $500 for a set, IIRC. These will have been tested very well and you should have no QC issues, at least not out of the box.

If you just want a pair, without the matching process, you can always buy a couple off eBay, or the rumor now is that some are sneaking back into Guitar Center. You'll probably spend at LEAST $100/ea at Guitar Center, and you get what you get-make sure you test them in the store before you leave....either way, you get the 10db pad and the cardiod capsule with the mic. You'd need to buy the other caps if you want them. I've used my 012's for overheads for a year, and haven't touched the pads yet...YMMV.

Not sure why you'd want a matched set for drum overheads...I don't think matching is too critical in that application. Others may argue that...
 
H2oskiphil said:
Not sure why you'd want a matched set for drum overheads...I don't think matching is too critical in that application. Others may argue that...
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I won't argue that - at least for rock recordings. Matched mics have some slight advantages over unmatched mics for drum overheads, but with multiple miking technique so common these days, those advantages become almost non-existant.

If you're using two overheads to record the whole drum setup, with maybe a kick and snare mic thrown in to punch up only those two drums, matched mics would be better to maintain a solid stereo image.
 
Matched overhead drum mics

That was going to be my next question, . .Do I really need a matched set or can I get away with just (2) individual overheads for the drum kit. However, I am only using (2) overhead condensers, and a mic for the kick drum to mic the entire kit. So, the overheads will be responsible for picking up most of the high end of the drum kit.

Not to get off the subject of octava's. . .But, is it possible to use only (1) overhead condenser, and (1) kick mic, and (1) SM-57 mic for the snare, and still get the same results as the two overheads, with a kick mic method?
 
studiodrum said:
That was going to be my next question, . .Do I really need a matched set or can I get away with just (2) individual overheads for the drum kit. However, I am only using (2) overhead condensers, and a mic for the kick drum to mic the entire kit. So, the overheads will be responsible for picking up most of the high end of the drum kit.

Not to get off the subject of octava's. . .But, is it possible to use only (1) overhead condenser, and (1) kick mic, and (1) SM-57 mic for the snare, and still get the same results as the two overheads, with a kick mic method?
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No, the two overheads will give you a stereo spread. Your proposed setup will give you a mono drum sound - and that can be kickass, too, but mono.
 
hmmmmm, very interesting

Harvey Gerst said:
No, the two overheads will give you a stereo spread. Your proposed setup will give you a mono drum sound - and that can be kickass, too, but mono.
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So, what your saying is that both methods will work fine, but it all depends on what type of sound that your after. . . correct?

Its unfortunate that I'm not experienced enough with micing drums to understand exactly what I'm after-- I certainly much better at showing up, and laying a few rhythm tracks down for a sound engineer, then I am at trying to mic my own drums in my make-shift home studio. LOL

I have a limited amount of mics with even a more limited amount of recording tracks. . .So, I guess what I'm after is a simple drum micing method, that will work for a variety of music types, (mostly, pop, light rock, r&b, and funk type stuff) That's why I though that the 1 overhead, 1 kick mic, and 1 snare mic, might be the easier and more straight forward way to go for me.

I suppose that I'm afraid that I don't have enough experience, to be able to get a decent (stereo) drum sound from two overheads-- so, I thought the 1 overhead would be easier to record.

Anyway, that's the deal in a nut shell. . .any suggestions would certainly be appreciated. . Thanks guys!
 
You'll never regret having a pair of SDC's in the locker, even if you choose to mic your set with a single LDC as an overhead.

There are a variety of methods you can use to stereo mic the OH's. I believe Harvey even discusses a couple of them in The Big Thread pinned to the top of this very forum.

Heck, I knew NOTHING about stereo micing drums, and simply hung my 012's over the set on the CD we just finished in my studio, Did they come out perfect? No, but they sound OK. I'll try L/R with the next set they come in to do, but for what they were looking for, I thought it came out pretty well.

Lots of reference sources for stereo micing techniques...do a Google search, or head over to Studio Forums and check out Dan's reference link library...I use that a LOT.

Do a little research, and your stuff will come out sounding fine.
 
There's nothing wrong in going for mono drums; at most, you'll piss off the drummer because he won't hear his wonderful tom rolls swishing across from speaker to speaker. That's okay, cuz nobody else gives a shit - they're all too busy listening to themselves anyway.

In many ways, mono drums sound far better than stereo.

If God had really wanted us to hear everything in stereo, why did He only give us one mouth?
 
sounds good!

Harvey Gerst said:
There's nothing wrong in going for mono drums;
In many ways, mono drums sound far better than stereo.

If God had really wanted us to hear everything in stereo, why did He only give us one mouth?
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I actually believe you when you say that mono drums sound far better than stereo. . . ! Probably much more solid, and simpler. . . If you can give me a brief example, between a mono drum recording, and stereo, that might help me understand better.

Also, if I decide to buy (2) overhead condensers, like a pair of Oktavas or Marshall MXL603's-- will I really be shooting myself in the foot if I don't buy them as a pair. . ? or can I get away with buying one condenser, and then maybe another one down the road-- what are the major advantages or disadvantages to buying a pair.
 
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I was always confused by the insistance of some on stereo drums. I'm a drummer myself, and although I hate to admit it, most drum lines are a combination of hat, snare and kick, which is all center and left (depending on how you pan it and if you're a lefty or righty of course). The only time there's going to be a true stereo "picture" of the drums is during a fill, the occational crash, or if the drummer is using the ride rather than the hat. I still mic sets stereo if I'm playing something really dynamic that's all over the set, but your average beat is going to all be one one side. Call me crazy, but IMO, I don't think mono drums are going to leave the recording feeling like it's lacking anything.
 
You'll be fine buying one now and possibly another later. Matched pairs are nice, but like it's been said they aren't all that neccisary unless you're really trying to be profesional. A good drum recording is going to be good regardless of whether the overheads are matched pairs.

Also, mono drums can be good, but personally I prefer stereo for the overheads, it's just makes things sound a little better to me, kinda like when you double track guitars and pan them, just kind of open things up a bit, that's just my experience though. Depends on the music really, like everything.
 
studiodrum said:
I actually believe you when you say that mono drums sound far better than stereo. . . ! Probably much more solid, and simpler. . . If you can give me a brief example, between a mono drum recording, and stereo, that might help me understand better.
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Typical Mono Drums Mic Setup: 1 Overhead, 1 Kick, 1 Snare. Recorded on 3 channels during tracking and summed to mono at mixdown.

Typical Stereo Drums Mic Setup: 1 or 2 Kick drum mics, 1 mic on snare top, one mic on snare bottom, 1 mic per tom, 2 or 3 overheads, 1 HH mic, and one or two room mics. During mixdown, the mics are panned as follows:
Kick - Centered
Snare - Centered, or slightly to one side.
HH - Slightly to one side.
O/H Crash - Hard left or right.
O/H Ride - Hard the other way.
O/H Splash - Centered, if used.
Toms - Panned from one side to the other.
Room mics - Panned if two, centered if one.

Also, if I decide to buy (2) overhead condensers, like a pair of Oktavas or Marshall MXL603's-- will I really be shooting myself in the foot if I don't buy them as a pair. . ? or can I get away with buying one condenser, and then maybe another one down the road-- what are the major advantages or disadvantages to buying a pair.
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No big disadvantages to unmatched O/H's for home studio rock drums, as long as they're reasonably close in sound.
 
The Oktava's are probably a safer bet soundwise for o/heads than the 603's.............presuming they are similar in their sound. I have found, as have numerous others if you believe what you read on various BBS, that the 603's can be overly bright............risky on o/heads but better than the 012's for acoustics, obviously YMMV.

:cool:

PS.......You can achieve a good stereo recording with a pair of o/heads (properly positioned), and a mic on the kick to add a bit more punch.........nothing more, nothing less. A lot depends on the kit, the room and the player.
 
I personally couldn't care if I had matched mics or not, but they should at least be similar. You may have a hard time finding two similar Oktava's whether you buy them together, whether they are sequential serial numbers, or whether you buy them months apart. Unless of course you buy them from the Sound Room like mentioned above. Also, check the mic clips when you buy them. Make sure they thread properly on stands. I know this post seems harsh, but before anyone complains, understand that I bought 12 of them at the same time. 5 mic clips won't thread properly, and I can hear a difference between all of them. In the end however, it doesn't bother me. Not since they were $50 a piece. For me they get the most use either on a live stage (where PA, room acoustics, loud amps etc... even out any differences between them), or I also like them in the studio on toms, and even snare occasionally. At $50 a piece they sound better to me than shure beta98's on toms, and if a drummer breaks one, you throw it out and buy another one cause it's cheaper than repairing a beta 98:)
 
mono drums. . . ?

Just to summarize everything for me, and so I have a better idea of what I'm doing, and how to do it, . . "cause I'm an idiot sometimes"

what would be the best, and easiest way to mic a standard drum kit in MONO, using 3-4 mics, and only 2 tracks, . . .without running into phasing problems?

Also, what would the best method be if I wanted to record the drums in STEREO, working with the same amount of mics, and 2 Tracks. . .

If someone can help me, and simplify the procedure for me , . that would be great! Thanks all. . .
 
studiodrum said:
I was thinking about picking up a matched pair of Oktava, MC012 condensers for drum overheads, and I was just curious if their quality control has gotten any better recently . . .

Also, what CAPSULE would work best for overhead drum mics, (cardioid, hyper, or the omni) and I guess that I would need the 10db pad too?

Does anyone know where to pick up a pair of these for a good price?

Thanks guys!
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I don't know, but the MC-012's are nice as drum overhead mics... and get the pad and all the capules too.
 
I recorded myself playing drums last night using an Oktava 219 on either side of the snare about two feet out, an ATM25 on the kick outside of the drum, and a MXL v67G about 6 feet away and 4 feet off the ground. Since I'm a horrible drummer, and the kit consists of a kick, snare, and floor tom and crash, ride and hats, I just played some really minimalist stuff. I was pretty pleased with the results, especially given the quality of some of the other parts of my chain. Point: you can make an aesthetically pleasing drum recording with a low-key setup. It all depends on the drum parts themselves.

Edit: and I agree, the 012s sound really nice as drum overheads.
 
studiodrum said:
what would be the best, and easiest way to mic a standard drum kit in MONO, using 3-4 mics, and only 2 tracks, . . .without running into phasing problems?
Click to expand...

Well, the easiest way -- and certainly the best for avoiding phase problems --would be to just use one mic on overhead and one for kick. Strategically place the overhead so that it gets the best possible balance between snare / tom / and cymbals. And more importantly, adjust your playing to get the best possible balance. This might require you to really lay in to your snare hits or back off on the hi-hat or cymbals . . . maybe not -- depending where the mic is set up and how you play.

You could stick a mic on the snare, of course, but then you'll have to be mindful of phase coherency -- You will most likely have to adjust your overhead mic or manually line the tracks up later in your audio editor to solve or avoid that.

It sounds to me like you're kind of a beginner at this, so I wouldn't worry about finding "the best method." Seriously. Even after 10 years, you won't find it. Consider the next couple years or so as learning time. Don't expect good results. All of our recordings sucked when we first started out. :D That's the way it works. There are no prodigies in recording.
 
"matched" MK012

Studiodrum:

For what it's worth, each MK012 should have a Russian-only, recycled paper manual with an included serialized, idividual frequency curve. When I bought my first pair I was able to coax the saleman to bring them all (12) out and closely match the frequency response curves for a pair. There are, of course, a lot of assumptions made in this process. For the price difference, I would hope that hope that Sound Room goes beyond comparing the supplied frequency response curves and makes their own measurements. This might be a good question to post them.

Paj
8^)
 
Yep, very much a beginner. . .HELP!

I have recorded a lot of music in the studio during my career. But, its a totally different scene for me from just walkin in, reading some charts, and laying down some rhythm tracks-- with a great engineer leading the way-- then actually having to place all the mics properly, and trying to get a decent sound all by myself with my little 4 track. . . I definitely have a new found respect for my 'brothers' in the booth now!!! lol

Anyway, back to micing the drums, . what if I placed 2 overheads, rather than one, on Track 1, and the kick mic on Track 2. I realize that would be a mono recording. But, would it at least pick up both sides of the kit, . while still keeping phasing problems to a minimum. . ?

Thanks again everyone for bearing with my elementary questions. .
 
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