Oktava Mics : MK-012s + MKL2500

[elil]

Comments on the MK-012 and MC012 and a question 'bout the 2500....

OK, I've been recording for a while and have always used a mismatched pair of LDCs as my OHs. It's sounded OK, but I saw it as a weak spot in my recordings. Recently, I've turned recording into a living and have been trying to take all the steps I can to bring my game to the top. I've been reading the forums here for the last 2 days researching my options and I've decided that the MK-012s were the way to go. I also read about the GC blowout and did my research on the chinese knockoffs.

Well, I can get them for approx $150 a piece brand new.... but I did a little more research and found a GC in my area that still had a few of these mics left.... only one problem: one was russian and the other was chinese. I explained to their manager that I was familar with the history and got them down to $50 per mic! He also through in an MKL-2500 (definately authentic, serial #, russian letters, etc.)!!!

Now I did some tests on the two (acoustic guitar @ the 12th fret 8", both mics next to each other, flip the mute swiches on a recording). The Russian is clearly superior in dynamic representation. It has a very crisp and warm tone and I'm definately in shock that I was able to get it for as little as I did!! The chinese knockoff was definately quiter (had to boost the input gain), but didn't sound too different. I noticed that the highs are a little harsher and generally the dynamics aren't as well preserved.

However, I wanted to use these for OHs. I still haven't tried them on drums... waiting for my next drum session on monday. I tried putting the mics in an XY config and recording the same acoustic as a stereo signal.... and DAMN! I was blown away by the way these two mics were able to work together. I flipped the pans, and no matter what I did the stereo image and dynamics of the guitar were crystal clear. I can't wait to try them on the drums... I don't think the slight sonic differences between the two will be as noticable, maybe I can use it to calm the hats on one side and sharpen the ride .

Either way... here's my question 'bout the 2500: It's definately the russian make... comes in the original casing, with PSU, and mount.... BUT, it's lacking the cable between the mic and PSU . Does anybody know where I can get this cable; it appears to be an XLR sized cable that goers from 6 - 7 pins? I'm guessing that GC swapped out the cable for one of the customers with the chinese knockoff w/ the infamous hum problem.

Thanx for reading this. Hopefully it's helpful to somebody out there!

 

[giraffe]

www.oktavausa.com
they sell the powersupply and the cable together, contact them and see if they'll just sell you the cable.

and possibly
www.oktava.com

 

[elil]

Thanx for the info. I contacted them today and they will sell the Russian PSU and cable together. However, he gave me some more info on the GC 2500s. The PSU is a chinese model, and has reportedly overheated (melting the internal components and setting fires), causes a hum in the signal, + the cables are different.

Either way, new PSU and cable for $250 isn't so bad to get my first tube mic . I've never used one before. Can anybody tell me what to expect, and what they are best suited for?

 

[Hollowdan]

Hey elil,
I actually own a russian mkl-2500. I love the mic, but I will say DO NOT put it in front of an electric guitar cabinet or drums!!! It is a very sensative mic and will distort badly to high spl's. It is an amazing vocal mic, as well as amazing on many acoustic instrument's. Always throw it up on string instruments (ala. violins and cellos) first thing, unless you have a ribbon mic, then try the ribbon first mkl-2500 second. I am jealous that you got yours for free AND 2 mc-012's for $100, chinese or not that is an insane price! I will say though that you should invest in getting another russian 012 and using the chinese one to single out the high hat or on elec guitar cabinets or something (you would be shocked how good a small diaphragm condensor sounds on a 4x12 cabinet) The russian 012's are so closely made that even 2 from different years will sound very close to matched. Obviously however you have discovered why people tell you to stay away from the chinese ones.

tip: keep the power supply for the mkl-2500 in a cool area with nothing on top of it even when you get the russian one! They do get kinda hot. But the $250 is well worth that mic, I have found it to be an excellent addition to my mic closet.

 

[elil]

Thanx for the advice Hollowdan!

I'm doing a vox session for a very versatile band next week and I think the tube will play a great part in some warm tone on a few songs.

I'm definately going to try for another russian down the line... the two are so close already, but it'd be nice to have a closer matched pair. I can't wait to try them on a guitar cab... I've never been happy with the sound of a 57 or i5 and based on my tests with an acoustic the 012 might be the mic for the job.

Moral of the story: It just goes to show you that it's worth the time to call all the GCs in your area. You may have the same luck I did.

 

[phaqu]

Ive been using my MC 012s in XY overhead for a while. Theres nothing wrong with them at all. Some people bitch about them about not being matched, but to me (maybe I got lucky on my pair), running them through a good pre ,theyre fine. I even like them better than the sm81s. And theyre fairly cheap.

 

[treymonfauntre]

i talked to a guy i found on craigslist that used to work for mckay (oktava's world distributor) and found out a good deal about the oktava mics. basically guitar center wanted more more more and forced oktava into the chinese manufacturing (with no quality control). guitar center kept putting pressure on more so oktava dropped out and claimed all the chinese ones were "counterfeit". the biggest difference is in the capsules. he said chinese bodies with a russian capsule don't sound but a smidge different than a full russian oktava.

 

[MichaelJoly]

i talked to a guy i found on craigslist that used to work for mckay (oktava's world distributor) basically guitar center wanted more more more and forced oktava into the chinese manufacturing (with no quality control). guitar center kept putting pressure on more so oktava dropped out and claimed all the chinese ones were "counterfeit".

That's an interesting spin on this story, one that makes the McKays look like victims - but I don't buy it.

I'm sure OAO Oktava in Tula could have manufactured all the '012 mics guitar center wanted. What happened (and this is based on conversations I've had with a senior exec at GC during preliminary discussion about aquiring the distributorship of Oktava myself) is that Guitar Center put price pressure on the McKay brothers (Oktava LTD) to bring those mics in for less. Not wanting to blow a huge distribution deal with GC, the McKays then out-sourced the manufacturing to China. Then when the Chinese cat got out of the bag Guitar Center backed away from the whole confusing mess, blew out the mics - Russian and Chinese orgin alike, and claimed they were duped. (in private company emails leaked to the public). So Guitar Center burnished their corporate image, the McKays remained invisible and OAO Oktava looked like the bad guys.

There's an important distinction between OAO Oktava in Tula, Russian and the former Oktava LTD (UK-based McKay brothers). The former was not pressured into producing more than they were able to - rather the later overstepped the bounds of their distributorship agreement and had unauthorized Chinese copies made.

Its unfortunate that "Oktava" (which most people assume to be the Russian manufacturer) has had their brand equity tarnished through this episode. And very little accountibility has been leveled at the McKay brothers who are directly responsible for the loss of brand equity and confusion in the marketplace brought about by the Chinese manufacture of Oktava microphones. btw - I'm not affiliated with any of these parties, just a fan of the microphones.

 

[Flatpicker]

...he said chinese bodies with a russian capsule don't sound but a smidge different than a full russian oktava...

I have to disagree with him because I know first hand that this is not the case. I have modified both Russian and Chinese versions and while the circuit is basically the same, the components are entirely different. The biggest audio difference is the lack of low end you hear with the Chinese versions, which is due mostly to the use of a much smaller output coupling capacitor.

I did modify a Chinese version to sound very similar to one particular Russian version I had at the time, but given the poor consistency of the Russian versions, no one can honestly make a blanket statement like “it sounds like the Russian versions” since their sound is so “hit or miss”. The modification is tricky though, because the pc board layout is so different and is not positioned in the center of the microphone body like the Russian one. This eliminates the possibility of placing parts on both sides and the larger output coupling capacitor is especially difficult to fit in there.

As for overall quality and build consistency, the Chinese version smokes the Russian version, IMHO. Sort of like comparing a new Volkswagen Beetle to one of the original ones. The pc board is of much, much better quality, the XLRs are soldered directly to the PCB, the components are consistent from mic to mic, and it has a heavier feel overall.

Another thing... the Chinese capsule beat the Russian capsule hands down on the ones I’ve tried, which is another reason I disagree with this guy. He really has it backwards IMO – you put a Chinese capsule on a Russian body and it sounds better!

 

[giraffe]

not better, just a little brighter.
i like the russians better too.

and, someone mentioned using the 2500 on violin/viola,
i second that opinion.

 

[Hollowdan]

Thanx for the advice Hollowdan!

I'm doing a vox session for a very versatile band next week and I think the tube will play a great part in some warm tone on a few songs.

I'm definately going to try for another russian down the line... the two are so close already, but it'd be nice to have a closer matched pair. I can't wait to try them on a guitar cab... I've never been happy with the sound of a 57 or i5 and based on my tests with an acoustic the 012 might be the mic for the job.

Moral of the story: It just goes to show you that it's worth the time to call all the GCs in your area. You may have the same luck I did.

WOW! I just learned so much about oktava's history in the newest posts, that I got a headache lol. Your very welcome for the advice my friend, anytime! After reading the latest posts, I am going to have to second my own original opinion, try to find another russian 012 lol.

As for checking all the "g.c.'s" in my area, ummmmm, well I manage a large independant store that competes with G.C. so I imagine I'd get fired for buying mic's from them lol (not really but I'd fire myself) I have had the "pleasure" of meeting some of the G.C. higher up's. Must say I think I would actually shoot myself if I bought a mic from them at ANY price lol. The guy's who ultimately get your money when you buy from G.C. are bye no means doing musicians much good. Don't get me wrong, for kids in the midwest who literally do not have a music store at all within 100 miles, G.C. and their catalog musicians friend, really do help them and I can appreciate that. I do not wish the downfall of G.C.-M.F. at all, I just feel that all muscians would be doing themselves alot more future returns bye buying from their local music store. The big chains are succesfully putting many independant dealers out of business. What will happen when ALL the local stores are gone? Then G.C. will control the companies and jack all the prices sky high on gear and it will really destroy the music industry. So yes, if you do NOT have a local music store, then bye all means support G.C. but if you have a local store do every musician a favor and keep them in business. Or do yourself a favor and spend the extra .50 an item and buy it from sweetwater, that is a great catalog store. I could never really say anything bad about sweetwater (no I do not work for them lol) OK I will change the subject now lol.

SM57 !!! the love/hate mic, you love to hate them and hate to love them. I found out the best thing ever with the glass shattering robotic sounding high mic called the SM57 recently. Last month (may 2006 issue) recording magazine had an article bye Paul J. Stamler called D.I.Y. the taming of the shure SM57. Incredible article! apparently when the SM57 was designed in like 200 B.C. (I think christ actually engineered it lol) mic pre's were a much lower input impedence than todays pre's. Paul came up with a formula to figure out which resistor you need, and you can make the SM57 sound amazing just bye soldering a resistor between pins 2 and 3 of a standard mic cable. If your pre-amp is a 2,000 ohm impedence you just need a 698ohm 1/4 watt metal film resistor, to solder in between pins 2 and 3 on the male side of a mic cable. It makes the SM57 actually WARM! I never thought I would hear a 57 sound warm, they always sounded so harsh and robotic to me. I have always refused to use them on guitar cab's (always have used them on the snare top though) Find the article and check it out, it's really easy and cheap I paid like $4 for 100 resistor's shipped to me front door. OK I'll shut up now lol. Later!!

 

[Flatpicker]

not better, just a little brighter...

Well then, maybe the capsules are inconsistent because the one I tested definitely had much more low end then any of the 4 Russian capsules (all different sounding) I compared it to. It wasn't brighter, just clearer sounding. Sort of approached the sound of an LDC.

 

[giraffe]

Well then, maybe the capsules are inconsistent because the one I tested definitely had much more low end then any of the 4 Russian capsules (all different sounding) I compared it to. It wasn't brighter, just clearer sounding. Sort of approached the sound of an LDC.

exactly, because LDC's are known for being "clearer" sounding.

 

[sdelsolray]

exactly, because LDC's are known for being "clearer" sounding.

What? Who "knows" this?

 

[Big Kenny]

What? Who "knows" this?

News to me!

 

[travelin travis]

i think that was meant to be sarcastic..........

 

[giraffe]

thank you travis.

 

[Flatpicker]

Ok, looks like the wording was bad on my part - here's the revised version:

"Well then, maybe the capsules are inconsistent because the one I tested definitely had much more low end then any of the 4 Russian capsules (all different sounding) I compared it to. Sort of approached the sound of an LDC.

Also, it wasn't brighter, just clearer sounding IMHO."

Better now?

 

[giraffe]

congratulations, you've succeeded in changing my opinion.
i now like the ones made in china better,
yea.

 

[Flatpicker]

congratulations, you've changed my opinion about expression my opinion,
yea.