Notice a lot of unfair Behringer bashing, what's up?

[jeff0633]

2. I see beyond the end of my nose for some distance.





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Jeff

My figures were related to the production of clothes. Go and read for yourself if you like.
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I don't want to hear about clothes. I want you to tell me the exact factories, and show me clear evidence of what you are saying. You made a charge, you should be able to back that up.





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Have you ever seen beyond the end of your nose?
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I see beyond the end of my nose for some distance.




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Do you know that 20% of the world lives off 80% of the world's wealth?
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So?


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The parents are in the same factory, although in many of these countries the life expectancy is no more than 40 anyway.
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Then blame the parents, not Behringer. Behringer is saving their fucking lives then, by giving them a job.




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The kids work because if they don't, they will die. The glue that sticks the soles of your Nike trainers on, well that causes brain damage (kids in 1st-world countries sniff it for fun). These workers are in little unventilated shacks breathing this stuff constantly.
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Then thank god for Behringer saving lives, because they are giving these desperate folks a job.

Your breaking my heart Dude. Slavery is illegal. Blame the government in China, and buy no more products from China at all. By the way, I'll send ya forty thousand other company names that you won't be able to buy from if that's your criteria. Hell, you won't be able to go anywhere or do anything. Are you actually buying gas for your car? They sometimes have spills, and it can kill the environment. They are also gouging their customers, which is not moral or just. I say you should stop buying Gas.


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Do you want to support that?
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I want to buy legal products in my country, that my music store sells. I want China to take care of their own laws, for I cannot concern myself with another nations societal troubles. It's not my place. China is a nation of people with the responsibility of taking care of their people and making their society work. THEY HAVE A CHOICE, AND IF THEY WANT TO CHANGE,THEY WILL!!


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DO YOU CHOOSE TO IGNORE A PROBLEM BECAUSE IT IS BENEATH YOU TO MAKE A JUDGEMENT OVER SOMEONE ELSE'S PRACTICES?
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No, It's beneath me to make a judgement on someone when I have no hard evidence that they are doing anything wrong or illegal. In fact, I claim it's immoral to do that very thing. China is responsible for it's citizens. Behringer seems to be following the law, or their products wouldn't be for sale in this country.


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You seem to be happy to come and discredit what I say, but very unwilling to actually question your own opinions. I am a happy Behringer owner, but I would never buy Behringer when there is something better in the market. Why? Because it's something better. My point was that Yamaha MG mixers are better. I don't have a claim on worker exploitation regarding Behringer. Uli's copying stinks, but if he can do the same thing cheaper then he should. Anyone with a brain and ears can hear it's not the same thing though, and when it is then credit is due, but not for his amazing design abilities.

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Does the Yamaha Board cost THE SAME as the Behringer board, with better pres? If so, why didn't you buy it? Like I said, I compared the pres in the VLZ to the UB pres, and the UB sounded better, NOT THE SAME, BUT BETTER!!! How can a copy sound better than the original? I always want to buy the best thing I can afford. I purchased the SP c1 condenser, because I liked the way it sounded. The damn top screen thing came off, and I thought it was bad quality. The screen dented really easy, almost like it was made out of tin foil. I think it's made in China too. I do like the sound of it, though. I am now in the market for another LC studio mic. I will need to get one of the cheap ones. I would like to get an AT 3035, but cannot afford a new one. So, I am left looking at the cheap China mics, or the Oktava stuff. Now, should I go without a mic, or buy alegal product in my country. I know what I will be doing. I will look at the Marshall V67G, or even that Nady Tube mic that's super cheap. Tell you one thing, I am damn glad that I have no problem buying legal products that my country sells, or my ass would be without another mic for some time. Thank You China, Thank You!!!

 

[jeff0633]

Leave Jeff alone. One day he will have a real job and will be able to buy something other then Behringer.

Me thinks you missed the entire point of the thread. I DID HAVE A MAKIE PRODUCT, AND AFTER CLOSE COMPARISON, THE UB SOUNDED BETTER, WITH BETTER EQ, AND MORE OPTIONS. It's been doing fine for over a year now.

Jeff

 

[crazydoc]

How come Behringer products are not illegal? If they are ripping off other patents, then US law protects these. If they were exact copies, then they would be illegal to sell.

Jeff

None of this crap still falls under patent protection.
"A patent is a property right granted by the Government of the United States of America to an inventor 'to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, or selling the invention throughout the United States or importing the invention into the United States' for a limited time in exchange for public disclosure of the invention when the patent is granted." All this stuff is old and doesn't fall under patent law.

And likewise doesn't fall under trademark:
"A trademark protects words, names, symbols, sounds, or colors that distinguish goods and services from those manufactured or sold by others and to indicate the source of the goods. Trademarks, unlike patents, can be renewed forever as long as they are being used in commerce."

Thats why companies are so protective of their products - pot them, use proprietary parts numbers, etc - and others reverse engineer and copy and sell them with impunity. It's not illegal.

 

[Mustafa Salaam]

D@mn, give this shit a rest!!!!!!!!!!

DIE THREAD, DIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[acorec]

Me thinks you missed the entire point of the thread. I DID HAVE A MAKIE PRODUCT, AND AFTER CLOSE COMPARISON, THE UB SOUNDED BETTER, WITH BETTER EQ, AND MORE OPTIONS. It's been doing fine for over a year now.

Jeff

Calm down, man! I also had a Mackie large console. It was a very unreliable console needing a ribbon cable replacement too often. I bought a Behringer MX8000 console and loved it. It did sound better than my Mackie.

You can't win with this crowd. They are always right. The only satisfaction to be had here is to realize that as much as they look down on the Behringer stuff, the "real" PRO BBS's look down on the higher "pro-sumer" crap that they have.

It is all relative.

 

[acorec]

Re: D@mn, give this shit a rest!!!!!!!!!!

DIE THREAD, DIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[acorec]

Re: D@mn, give this shit a rest!!!!!!!!!!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mustafa Salaam
DIE THREAD, DIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will DIE if you guys kill this very intereting thread which I agree with and stand behind in every way!!!!!!! I will NOT bomb you!!!!
I love Berry's stuff and cannot recommend any other products!!!!

Mustafa SalamiNOW

 

[grinder]

If the store you bought from started selling dead kittens, but you knew it was legal to do so . . . would you still think that selling dead kittens is right? The beauty of the free market is that we can vote for what we feel is right or wrong with our pocket book. When you buy Behringer, you're basically giving your support to their business practices and saying you agree with them in not so many words. And your dollars help them to continue such practices -- ethical or not.

Do they make a dead kitten with a balanced input?

 

[noisedude]

Does the Yamaha Board cost THE SAME as the Behringer board, with better pres? If so, why didn't you buy it?

You really don't listen, do you?

Here's a post of mine from the world famous Behringer Chronicles / Sour Milk thread:

well you can look at 2nd-hand mackies for a start. there's loads around and they last well, unlike some other brands i seem to discuss a lot ...

here's my example though, www.digital-village.co.uk, which i've only done to settle this argument as far as possible once and for all:

Behringer UB1622FX £146
4 IMP pres, two stereo mixes. Real noisy FX.

Yamaha MG12/4 £126
6 pres, two stereo busses. No FX.

Yamaha MG16/4 £175
10 pres! 2 stereo mixes. No FX.


when you realise you can have a better mic mixer for less than the behringer you start to realise what a false economy they are. for £30 more you HAVE to take the 16/4 and have a PROPER piece of gear.

I'm a hard-up student - my money has to go as far as possible. I use Behringer gear, but I'm so aware of its shortcomings. I bought my UB board only a couple of months before the MGs came out ... of course, I didn't know about that.

These Yamms have stereo channels that have mic pres in them - more mixer for less money. It's a no-brainer. And yes, I listened to them against Soundcrafts, Behri UBs and MXs and of course Mackies. The UB IMPs are very quiet but don't sound nice. With Yamaha you get quiet and good sound.

Are you hearing me yet?

 

[VSpaceBoy]

You know.. I could care less about comparing quality.

I mean.. every manufacturer of every product has a purpose and a target market. To bash someone or some product comparing it to other products with different price tags or features is retarded. To me, I could care less how much a BMW M3 is nicer than my Honda, but its out of my price range and I'm just not the BMW buyer type. <Would be if I could afford it though> If lower end companys didn't make lower end gear, then kids or folks with lower incomes would have to do without. Or worse, they would have to steal. So I'm fine with that.

The two things I'm having trouble with are this:

1st - It pisses me off to read that people are only moral when they can afford to be. "Well I would by a Mackie <or whatever> mixer instead but since I can't afford it, I'll buy from a criminal". One who sells stuff copied is horrible. I will not support that. I do have a Mixer from Behringer that I will now get rid of. Its one thing to get inspiration from things but not to copy out right. I didn't ever know anything about that.

2nd - I hate watching everyone argue about things that are so subjective. Who the hell cares!!?? When I was learning to play guitar, someone I ran into told me if I ever wanted to be good I had to get a new guitar. Said "Your only as good as your guitar". At that stage in my life, I believed him. Saved up and bought a Fender for about $900 and I still wasn't any good. Talent FAR exceeds anything else. We only buy gear for each other. Only ppl like us can tell the diffence!!! I came home with a new Orange amp <$3000> that I've been creaming over and played it for my girlfriend. I asked her what do you think of my new amp compared to my last main amp <Crate $300> "I loved it!!!" I say "Doesn't it sound awesome!" she says "it sounds the same but that Orange is so cute, I love it!"
Its still makes me smile when I let ppl hear a brand new song that I busted ass on with all my newer equipment. And after its finished they say "Good song, but can I hear such and such again, thats still the best song ya got" Refering to a song that I made on my Tascam 4 track with one Peavy mic overdubbed to hell in back. Most ppl dont give two shits on the recording.

Bottom line, lighten up and fuck Behringer!!

Ron

 

[chessrock]

You guys, I realize I'm a grown man and all, and using homosexuality as a slang term is pretty childish, but I have to say it . . .

This thread is pretty GAY.

 

[noisedude]

yeah, damn jeff and his foolish thread-recapitulation tactics. i wish i had the nerve to stay away from these threads! now, i'm joining the Q bandwagon and demanding that Behringer's sales department come and delete this thread they started

 

[grinder]

You guys, I realize I'm a grown man and all, and using homosexuality as a slang term is pretty childish, but I have to say it . . .

This thread is pretty GAY.

Mr.Hat

 

[Rev E]

"Well I would by a Mackie <or whatever> mixer instead but since I can't afford it, I'll buy from a criminal". One who sells stuff copied is horrible. I will not support that. I do have a Mixer from Behringer that I will now get rid of. Its one thing to get inspiration from things but not to copy out right. I didn't ever know anything about that...

As crazydoc said earlier much of what Behringer is not (been proven to be) illegal. Patent infringement requires actually "using" a patented principle. So the first question is WHAT does Mackie, etc have patents on. Mackie, etc would have to show exactly what patented principle Behringer used without permission. Just because a product is similar to another doesn't make it patent infringement. I think many of you would be surprised at exactly what audio companies actually hold valid patents on. Circuit design is an old art. Technological improvements are slow to develop and if someone has used it for more than 1 year prior to patent application, the "art" is no longer "novel/new" and can legally be used by ALL. Did you hear that, free to be used by ALL, even Behringer.

It's a closer question with the issue of trademark infringement. However, it is not likely that consumers are "confused" as to source... that is, if you and me (representing objectively average users) are NOT CONFUSED as to who is making that product then there is not a good case for trademark infringement. Most people (although noticing similarties) are NOT confused as to who makes those products. Thus, there is NO trademark infringement and any reference that Uli Behringer is a "criminal" is without a basis in fact, as he's not been convicted of any crime.

Now I'm not condoning Behringer's ALLEGED labor practices. I don't have any personal knowledge. However, if you folks are tying to say that the low prices of Behringer's products IN AND OF THEMSELVES clearly indicate illegality then I'd have to say that I disagree 180 degrees. The proof's got to be in the pudding.

FYI, I don't own much Behringer gear. I have only their cable tester and the HA4700 headphone amp. I've owned and used their stuff in the past, but much of that gear either broke or was sold because I found something that performs better for just a tad bit more money. To each his/her own I suppose.

 

[fruney]

What a waste of time why did I read this?... And I thought Jeff was dumb.

 

[noisedude]

What a waste of time why did I read this?... And I thought Jeff was dumb.

You could've cut your losses and not bothered writing a reply ... who else are you saying is dumb?

 

[vox]

....FYI, I don't own much Behringer gear. I have only their cable tester and .......

The cable tester has a really nice feature set not usually found in a cable tester it's a phantom power tester and test tone generator as well.

It's this one right?

Or the second one?

http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=48497

 

[crazydoc]

Just goes to show:
*If it's not patented or trademarked, it's not illegal to copy it, and if there's any money in it, somebody will.

*If you sell it cheaper, they will buy it.

*That Behringer boycott has really been a success.

It's just human nature to want the mostest for the leastest, like lots of other ugly traits we have.

 

[noisedude]

hmmm. if there's any doubt, i ain't boycotting and my comments about labour exploitation were not in relation to Behringer!

 

[Rev E]

It's highly unlikely that the layout of a product could every be trademarked. It's possible that a company could claim trade dress (as in the display is something that goes along with the trademark that people recognize as belonging to one particular manufacturer or source). However, trade dress protection usually requires a demonstration of secondary meaning. Time and advertising are the most common ways of acquiring secondary meaning. But if in the process of acquiring secondary meaning another user uses what was being acquired, the first user will have a more difficult case of claiming that consumers identify ONLY his product as having a particular trade dress.

Functional displays (as in knobs, LEDs, buttons, etc) are rarely granted trademark protection because of their functional nature.

People rarely get it... by not permitting someone to acquire trademark status on a particular mark or display the law both presumes and encourages others to use the mark or display freely. It's only the uninformed that think that if X company comes out with a mark, it automatically means that no one can copy it or create something similar which does not misslead people about who the source of the goods are . The real question with the Swizz tester vs. Behringer is "Are you confused as to who's making what?" If no, then this part of the Behringer is a "theif", others are "good" conversion is pretty much over. No offense or anything.

I wonder where automobile technology would be now if no one copied or imitated functional things?