Nice try, you stinkin' lying sob(s)!

[Beck]

BRDTS,

So what is your job at Digidesign, besides public relations? They are paying you for this I hope....

 

[Dr ZEE]

It's really good. .

And so are the "Mighty Chicken King™" frog legs.
yam-yam
/respect

 

[Beck]

It wouldn't have mattered if the guy were in a suit in a controlled TV interview, he was pimping yet another tape emulation gimmick. I’ve seen them all. This is not being marketed to people that have been around… not by a long shot. It’s primarily for the TapeOp crowd and younger…

Manufacturers see a market for analog. We’ve clearly kept it on the map. Digidesign is not going to start making tape decks. They have a customer base that believes everything from good sex to good music can be had from a PC. Many people believe this, and they’ve never known anything else.

Well, a person can’t help when they were born, but sometimes I thank God I landed where I did. Most people 10 years younger or even less haven’t got a chance in hell to cut through this utter digital bullshit… and that’s exactly what it is.

On the other hand if I were much older (and had a hole in my head or something) I might be as easily deceived as a child. At some point the elderly buckle under pressure to embrace modern trends so as not to appear outdated and irrelevant among their peers. I’m sure failing hearing has something to do with it as well. So in that respect I guess Digidesign and others will catch a few people that should otherwise know better.

It’s not technology, but psychology that sells this garbage. Never forget that.

 

[Beck]

The individual in the video may just have the misfortune of being the face of the company at this time and place, or he may be like many music industry salesmen we’ve come to know and dislike.

Nonetheless, it’s quite natural for ZEE and others to be incensed by an individual or corporation trying to take advantage of public ignorance for profit. This is a very noble sentiment and shows that one cares about something other than self. We know we’re not going to be deceived, but still feel for the many that will be taken in.

Quite a few of us here could use our knowledge and experience to fill our pockets at the expense of the uninitiated. It would be very easy. The opportunities are there, but the conscience will not permit.

 

[Beck]

Trade shows basically suck.

No doubt… and from a marketing perspective that is a really bad video to have out there in the first place, regardless of the product being pitched.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

No doubt… and from a marketing perspective that is a really bad video to have out there in the first place, regardless of the product being pitched.

Yeah, I pretty much have to agree with that.

You've got watch your image as a company and at the same time, you also have to have exposure to your goods and services.

Should the company in question here have released good and accurate news about their plug-in? For sure! Everybody in business wants to do that.

Did they film the man at his best? Probably not. If they would have taped this in the morning, with less noise and the man less harried and fully awake, he no doubt would have given a better performance then long into the day. We have eye-witness accounting of that, thanks to BRDTS here.

To call him names here serves no worthy purpose.

We have also had it reported to us that this product is usable and offers a pleasurable effect to its users.

Those who track in analog also can taste the fruits of their pursuit by staying in analog. That ship is still afloat along with a few patches on her hull.

Cheers!

 

[Dr ZEE]

...this product is usable and offers a pleasurable effect to its users.

And so would the "Mighty Chicken King™" frog legs.

/respects

 

[Beck]

He didn't say anything about the emulator being able to make the stereo image wider...

-MD

A very significant point.

There are some things digital really can’t do.

From the feedback of people that have actually brought this into the studio, the consensus seems to be that it doesn’t sound like tape or an analog compressor, but makes their recordings sound “Better.”

whichever way you slice it, this begs the question… what happened to the digital Nirvana people have insisted they’ve been experiencing all these years?

Some of the same people that deny there are any flaws in our most current digital technology are saying, “Yeah, use this emulator… it will add life to your mix because it sounds like tape.”

And some wonder why I get frustrated with these people sometimes. Talking to digital missionaries is like talking to politicians. I’ve done both enough to know they’re the same animal… an animal that can breathe underwater or hold their breath indefinitely... whatever seems most impressive at the time.

 

[Dr ZEE]

ok, let's do some "name calling"

Whether you’re a professional audio mixer, musician, or live sound engineer, Reel Tape Suite (which includes TDM, RTAS®, and AudioSuite™ versions of all three plug-ins) will bring the richness and vintage sound of analog gear to your Pro Tools|HD® Accel, Pro Tools LE™, Pro Tools M-Powered™, Avid Xpress®, Avid Xpress DV, Avid Xpress DNA, or Digidesign® VENUE live sound environment system with ease.

That is PURE FRAUD. Period.
insert "name calling" of your choice here: {............}
***********
On-screen 'active element' that looks like vintage knob sitting on the shaft of three position rotary switch labled as "SPEED" 7.5 15 and 30 IPS.
That is PURE FRAUD. Period.
insert "name calling" of your choice here: {............}
**********
On-screen 'active element' that looks like vintage knob sitting on the shaft of a potentiometer (or is it? (or should it be?) (? hmmmm?)) labled as "BIAS"
That is PURE FRAUD. Period.
insert "name calling" of your choice here: {............}
*****
On-screen 'active element' that looks like vintage knob sitting on the shaft of a potentiometer (? hmmmm?or is it? (or should it be?) (? hmmmm?)) labled as "CAL ADJUST"
That is PURE FRAUD. Period.
insert "name calling" of your choice here: {............}
*****
"Machine" - "swiss", "US", "Formular" - "classic".
That is PURE FRAUD. Period.
insert "name calling" of your choice here: {............}

so, who is the guy to be "name called"? Corp(s) are corp(s) - there's no a real person who's personally responsible. and so there's no one to be "called".
***********
"Slightly Phat" ? hmmm. is it a "Factory Preset name of a combination of B.S.-named and misrepresented on-screen parameters for an algorithm to perform its evil-doing? Good name.! That sounds like "true-something" to me. So at least some honesty there. I Give a credit where the credit is earned.
I bet, the user, who has found this product being usable, can create a save and name his/her own "CUSTOM" presets for instant recalls of pleasurable effects in the future.

*********
And, please, don't give that "I feel sorry for the guy who happen to do a "dirty work" as a salesman rep" crap. This company is not a joke. This is not a group of kids playing around with 'sofware making' for fun. Any so-so knowledgeable professional should be (and I assume is) offended by a product like that. Well, that's what I think, but I may be damn wrong and foolish with my assumption, since "knowledgeable professional" watzing circles on the ballroom floor at the same party and sip the same Zinfandel after the trade-show is over.

arghhhhhhhhhhhhh, what can I say? "Pack 'er guitar and move on, the roads are for everybody"

/later

 

[Dr ZEE]

btw, just to make it perfectly clear.
I am not trying to use the "situation" here as an opportunity for spewing a dose of general discontent toward the digital technology. That is not the point. I personally have (or at least had) a great deal of respect toward Digidesign as a producer of really great digital recording products. And I am myself am a user of those great products (a long time user, I must say).
I am simply expressing my outrage as I see a producer of really great digital recording products, toward which I have (or at least had) great deal of respect, getting involved in fraudful enterprise by introducing to the market a product full of gimmics beyond the level of acceptability, and by doing so, contributing rather greatly to the mass of dirty sewage of confusion and missinformation that floods the today's "recording community". It is simply unacceptable, imo. That's all.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

...And, please, don't give that "I feel sorry for the guy who happen to do a "dirty work" as a salesman rep" crap. This company is not a joke. This is not a group of kids playing around with 'sofware making' for fun. Any so-so knowledgeable professional should be (and I assume is) offended by a product like that. Well, that's what I think, but I may be damn wrong and foolish with my assumption, ...

If you're asking me to not express my opinions, I'm afraid I won't be able to oblige you here.

Digi-Design is attempting to offer a product to computer based, digital audio users that will simulate some of the characteristics of open reel recording. Ampex and Studer and a bevy of other analog tape recorder companies can't make a viable business venture of offering clients the real thing any more because their customer base evaporated or migrated to other avenues. At least Digi-Design is attempting to offer a current and available product to those who remember what qualities analog offered and wish to emulate in their current digital reality.

Have you purchased this product in question? Yes or no will suffice here.

Do you know for a fact that its as worthless and evil as you paint it to be? Yes or no will also suffice here too.

re-read the last line of yours that I quoted in this post.

Cheers!

 

[Dr ZEE]

If you're asking me to not express my opinions,

no I am not. "Please , don't give me that crap..."- expression is not a way of "asking" , it's a way of "expressing".
****

Digi-Design is attempting to offer a product to computer based, digital audio users ...

all Digidesign products are offered to 'computer based / digital audio' users. And I am one of those users.

Ampex and Studer and a bevy of other analog tape recorder companies can't make a viable business venture of offering clients the real thing any more because their customer base evaporated or migrated to other avenues.

Yes, that is true. And you should give a BIG THANK YOU to Digidesign for why it is so.

Digi-Design is attempting to offer a product ...that will simulate some of the characteristics of open reel recording.

No it is not. It is actually offering (not attempting to offer) a product which look like simulate characteristics of open reel to reel recording.
There is no such thing as "characteristics of open reel to reel recording" that can be "universally picked and applied", and thus there's nothing to "simmulate". btw. You would agree with it if you really (and I mean REALLY!) think about it. But I would not be surprised if people would argue this. Those people would simply say - analog recorder is nothing more than an "effect processor", and those effects can be "recrieated" by intelligent rearrangement of data. Case closed. And f it IT IS SO ,damn it! - Then let me see those "intelligent arrangement" parameters, sliders, knobs and what not. DON't GIVE ME that "three speed three possition rotary switch" bullS*T", and DON'T give me "swiss" and "classic" crap. I am like a "professional dude" , you know, man, I am like a guy, who has to know what I am doing for sure every step of the way, I must know what's going on in depth

At least Digi-Design is attempting to offer a current and available product to those who remember what qualities analog offered and wish to emulate in their current digital reality.

Again it's not 'attempt' it is an offer. And if it was an offer of a 'video game toy' to "those who remember" , then it would be just fine with me. But it is not so. What it is instead - it is this offer:
Whether you’re a professional audio mixer, musician, or live sound engineer, Reel Tape Suite (which includes TDM, RTAS®, and AudioSuite™ versions of all three plug-ins) will bring the richness and vintage sound of analog gear to your Pro Tools|HD® Accel, Pro Tools LE™, Pro Tools M-Powered™, Avid Xpress®, Avid Xpress DV, Avid Xpress DNA, or Digidesign® VENUE live sound environment system with ease.
I did not write this. Digidesign did.

Have you purchased this product in question? Yes or no will suffice here.

No.
***********
Note: Below in between "{" and "}" is not for Jeff, since all he needed was "Yes or No"
I know the difference between chickens and frogs. I have both kinds jumpin', hoppin, running and cockin' around in my own backyard. When I see a 'frog farm' offering "Mighty Chicken King™"-meal, I know it's a fraud. I don't need to purchase it to know that it is a fraud. I also know how they "taste" and how they may taste when "cooked rigt".
***********

Do you know for a fact that its as worthless and evil as you paint it to be? Yes or no will also suffice here too.

I did not say that this product is worthless, nor I say the product is evil. Nor I paint anything here.
I've said that it is a fraud. Fraudful products can be used and be found useful.
Is offering of a fraudful product "an evil doing"? I don't know. You can judge for yourself if you choose to judge. I don't. I just report what I see. I see what my eye lets me to see, and if my eye is a "judge", then so be it so. It's not me - it's my eye, after all
*********

re-read the last line of yours that I quoted in this post

I know I am foolish. Damn foolish, that is.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

OK,

So, what ideally would have them do as apposed to what they're doing?

Would you prefer that they not offer any analog simulators of any kind?

Would you prefer that it was still 1985 and nothing had changed since that golden era of analog rule?

Or, do you wish that the current crop of digi-heads would just leave you alone to wallow in your analog quagmire?

Cheers!

 

[Dr ZEE]

OK,

So, what ideally would have them do as apposed to what they're doing?

Would you prefer that they not offer any analog simulators of any kind?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. good question. I have no answer to that. not yet. I have to think about it. let me think about it, meanwhile (while I am "thinking"...) let me jump to the next line

Would you prefer that it was still 1985

that would be nice in many respects

...and nothing had changed since that golden era of analog rule?

that would pretty cool too.

do you wish that the current crop of digi-heads would just leave you alone ..?

a one who's not here can't leave.

...to wallow in your analog quagmire

I only wish it was all mine.
And !!!!!!! That leads me to a hint helping me out while I'm still struggling trying to answer the first question!
So here's the answer:
"No. I don't want them to not offering any analog simulators of any kind. More to that. I salute them for what they are doing. More power to them. And hopefully their "success" will contribute to more often appearances of auction on eBay and alikes with lines in the item description ala "...selling it because I don't need it anymore after my latest studio upgrade. Take it cheap.", and ultimately will work toward my wish."



now, what the hell am I rolling my eye about?
ah, I'll let you (nobody personally, just the way of saying it) to conclude on your own.

/respects

 

[Beck]

The problem is there is no such thing as a digital-based tape emulator… Period! They don’t work as advertised and never have. I’ll say the same thing about digital compressors going back to the early outboard devices to the latest plug-ins. They don’t work on the same principle. Everything in digital audio is an effect. There simply isn’t a digital counterpart for everything in the analog realm. THERE ISN’T A PLUG-IN FOR EVERYTHING. Well, people will sell you one, and some swampland if you’re in the market.

If anyone is still unclear about what I think on this subject… this industry has created a fantasy cyber music world in which everything has been redefined. But it’s much the same way in every other area involving personal computers, from gaming to porn. There is something about the senses that allows humans to be psychosomatically drawn in to these things as though they are real. The same thing is going on here. Humans can cue off of a symbol and the brain fills in the rest. Without this phenomenon there would be no digital anything.

Digital does some things very well, but can’t do everything, and does many things very poorly. The Swiss Army knife DAW is a myth. It doesn’t exist. Digidesign and others want a clientele that is box-centric. There is nothing outside of “The Box.” The box is God. The Box can do anything and everything.

One perspective is that these nice people at Digidesign are just providing a service with a product like this. Another perspective is that they are taking advantage of a market for analog by offering a poor imitation to the uninitiated. The crime is they are claiming this computer generated hocus pocus is tape. They are claiming they have captured the essence of tape and put it in a box.

Lets just hope we don’t live to see the day when Digidesign is pimping mail-order bride plug-ins. Rest assured, there will be people that think they have a real woman. That’s where we’re going.

There are many people for which analog is some mysterious mythical creature, many of whom have never so much as seen a reel of tape. Manufacturers know they can capitalize on this segment of the market by offering something more familiar for DAW users. And they know they don’t have to fool everyone… only enough of the population to turn a profit. If the buyer doesn’t know real diamonds from shattered pieces of auto glass, “What is the harm?” So asks Digidesign.

Some people have to have their eyes ripped out before other senses like hearing and touch become more finely tuned. The audiophile gets to keep his eyes. IMO, this is the fundamental difference between people like me and anyone I’ve ever debated analog vs. digital. I can’t describe it to you in words anymore than I could describe a new primary color that no one else had yet seen.

 

[Tim Gillett]

Agree with Ghost.

The product seems quite new. I havent even found a review of it.
Wouldnt it be better to either test it personally or failing that wait for some reviews by people whose opinions are respected?

If time is on your side then why the rush ? If you are right about this device you will be proven right soon enough.


Cheers Tim

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Beck,

I can't really disagree with anything you said in your last post.

In reality, the only substitute for a good reel to reel deck is another reel to reel deck.

Having said that, I also realize that there is an existing large pool of digital recording enthusiasts out there who are never going to get their hands on a quality analog deck for a number of reasons ranging from no new product being available for them to not wanting the bulk and maintenance of owning used analog gear.

The emotional side of my brain wants to lament in the sorrow of what's become the state of our analog art. It wants to ignore the progress that's been made in an evolving digital world that is quickly turning us into buggy whip defenders. It wants to remain comfortable thinking that parts, technicians and tapes will forever be available for us to keep us in our own little analog box.

The logical side of my brain sees that there is a larger digital reality surrounding us at this point in history. It sees that they are at least acknowledging that analog does have many redeeming qualities and that they are trying to address those issues by offering products like this one for sale.

Is this the ultimate analog simulator? Probably not.

Will they continue to offer up these types of products in the future and slowly make them more and more palatable? Probably yes.

Cheers!

 

[Dr ZEE]

Wouldnt it be better to either test it personally or failing that wait for some reviews by people whose opinions are respected?

No and no. That's for me so.
Some will "test it". Some will wait for a "respected one".
that's life
not to mention, that I don't want to hear an "openion" from someone who had completed a "test" of an "on screen active element which looks like a knob sitting on top of a shaft of a three position rotary switch titled as " SPEED" 7.5, 15 and 30 IPS. (of coures, the "fact" that the knob is sitting on top of a shaft of a three position switch is an extension comming from my sick immagination, while only God knows what the "programmer" was imagining).
The one who needs "to test" such thing better keep his/her opinion for him/herself.

I don't know what else to add to this bs
/later

 

[Dr ZEE]

Will they continue to offer up these types of products in the future and slowly make them more and more palatable? Probably yes.

Cheers!

Jeff, the "type of product" they are offering is the same from the day they've started offering any products. They just changing the "name" , the "box ", the on-screen look and the description. It is a very simple matter, really.
/respects

 

[Flangerhans]

Orange Jell-O. It doesn't taste like oranges, it tastes like chemicals. Everywhere you go, there's boxes of Orange Jell-O.

Luckily, the orange is still being produced...in quantity.

If there was an orange blight...and we never saw another orange, over time our taste buds would forget real oranges. Eventually, everyone would say that oranges taste like chemicals. Those who didn't like chemical flavor would conclude that oranges taste terrible, and avoid the Jell-O of that flavor.

Here's hoping that there will always be those who want analog, and are willing to use sticky tape and rust to struggle along if nothing better exists. Meanwhile, there is tape to be had, and machines to be refurbished. The axe hasn't fallen yet, and a few vociferous champions of tape may keep it that way indefinitely.