Newbie: Vox/VU on Tascam 388

[berrygoldwater]

Hey there, I've just begun recording on a newly serviced Tascam 388 and I'm running into a few issues. Fist off, I've been having trouble getting the vocals to come in loud enough - without clipping - to be audible in the mix. After trying several different mics (sm57/58) and cables, as well as purchasing a pre amp (ART MPA pro ii), I'm beginning to think the problem lies in the way I recorded the other tracks. Lots of the tracks are sitting in the red (I guess I was overexcited to play with tape saturation). I'm guessing this was a mistake, and that the mic simply can't get a loud, clean signal that can sit in such a mix. So I was wondering, when you track on the 388, where do the different instruments usually sit on the VU meter? With which instruments do you usually hit the tape hard, and how far in the red do you go? Personal preferences and general rules of thumb would be greatly appreciated, for VU as well as vocals.

Thanks!

 

[j.harv]

I always record into the red on my 388. Luckily with no ugly artifacts from the dbx.
The song I'm working on now has the bass well in to the red as well as the vox. And I'm using an MPA II also. But.... im also plugging an fmr rnla compressor into the vocal channel. This helps the vocals sit well and I can also add a bit more volume to them to help them cut through a little more. If you have a compressor, give it a try.

 

[Rikard]

Hey there, I've just begun recording on a newly serviced Tascam 388 and I'm running into a few issues. Fist off, I've been having trouble getting the vocals to come in loud enough - without clipping - to be audible in the mix. After trying several different mics (sm57/58) and cables, as well as purchasing a pre amp (ART MPA pro ii), I'm beginning to think the problem lies in the way I recorded the other tracks. Lots of the tracks are sitting in the red (I guess I was overexcited to play with tape saturation). I'm guessing this was a mistake, and that the mic simply can't get a loud, clean signal that can sit in such a mix. So I was wondering, when you track on the 388, where do the different instruments usually sit on the VU meter? With which instruments do you usually hit the tape hard, and how far in the red do you go? Personal preferences and general rules of thumb would be greatly appreciated, for VU as well as vocals.

Thanks!

I'm a little confused on the question...so forgive me, I don't want to sound condescending. A good general practice when you are having trouble getting a part to sit well in a mix, is to turn down your other tracks all the way down, adjust the fader/eq of the track you are having trouble with to a point where it sounds good, not distorting(or distorting if that's what your into), and then work the otherr parts up until it's blended. Also good to keep your faders pretty low when mixing to allow for headroom, and flexibility. Nothing wrong with hitting the red, as long as you are not recording with the dbx on. If it is on, you need to keep things below -4db or you will have some problems with swelling and artifacts.

Is the problem on playback, or just when you are monitoring when tracking? Are you recording with DBX? Without?

 

[A Reel Person]

...

I'll usually shoot for 0VU on everything, and if it peaks a little into the red occasionally it's usually alright.

I've never had any trouble with dbx anomalies & recording level issues.

 

[gentlejohn]

I'll usually shoot for 0VU on everything

When you say 'shoot for' ARP do you mean:

A) Aim to have your loudest parts peaking (or 'shooting' up??) at '0', OR
B) Try to maintain a constant level of around '0' with louder passages occasionally going over?

Sorry for perhaps coming across as being a bit pedantic where this is concerned. I really don't mean to it's just that I'm still experimenting this end and there appears to be A LOT of discrepancy surrounding this very subject eg: 'Hit tape hard'; Record without NR; Record with NR; Aim for '0'; Aim for '-4'; etc ...

I know this is all really fundamental, basic stuff we're talking here! I'm also aware it's all very subjective and that one has to 'find their own groove' BUT, when you're starting out, there seems to be SO many conflicting thoughts on this very subject of 'Optimum Level Setting' good practice that it can at times be very confusing for us poor newbies! Personally speaking, I keep swaying between the whole school of 'hitting the tape hard' with my DBX disengaged & the whole 'record with DBX 'ON' thing (both with varying degrees of success!) I admit I've yet to 'find my groove' where this seemingly very basic concept is concerned and, as a result, I'm having difficulty getting past it to be able to just get on with the simple (!) 'art of music making'. The 'means of production' is getting in the way somewhat. Again, personally speaking, until I can find good working practices that please my ears (ie: I'm satisfied with what's coming back at me through the monitors playback) I feel I can't concentrate on the main job in hand ie: 'The Music'. (Sorry this has turned into rather a ramble here but I'm still trying to find 'my sound' (or at least 'production' sounds I'm happy with). This is taking me far longer than I first envisaged!)

 

[Rikard]

There really are no wrong answers, it's all a matter of what you like. There is no better way to learn than hands on and experimenting, you will learn way more from that than all the opinions you get from arrogant Hacks like me

I also think you are way better off listening to A Reel Person, than me, he really knows his stuff. So what he said! I just never pushed it too hard when dbx was engaged, as I was afraid of all the things I read it would do.

 

[A Reel Person]

...

I think giving it as consistent a signal as possible that peaks at 0 is best, but if it traverses on some peaks over 0 it's okay. I don't think momentary peaks up to +3 is "hitting it hard", but if you're riding consistently in the red it's another story. I don't recommend riding up in the red zone or peaking that's hitting the right side of the meter, would probably be more forgiving with dbx off, but would probably create unwanted artifacts with dbx on.

It's music. It varies a lot. Not like a steady test tone in a lab environment.

When mixing you'll often have to ride the weakest track up as much as possible then match all the other tracks to that. Consistent levels to all tracks when recording makes all mixing much easier. It's common sense but things vary a lot in actual sessions that you have to compensate for on the fly.

 

[gentlejohn]

That makes things MUCH clearer! Thanks for your advice (and understanding).

 

[berrygoldwater]

Yeah that helps a bunch, thanks. For anyone else reading, yes I record with dbx off and lots of stuff sitting in the red and peaking beyond and it was tough to get the vocals to sit in the mix naturally.