Newbie Metal Mix

[emergencyexit]

Hey guys,
I'm part of a 15 year old band that has been making a CD over the last couple months. The reason it has been taking a while is because we just got into home recording as we started this CD so we are learning as we create. This song is the first mix that I think i have gotten even half decent (I hope). Please any critique is needed about recording. I know its not amazing but I just hope its ok since I have been trying to get a good sound for almost a month now (take into consideration I have school and work to deal with too).

Be tough on me, Although I'm young you can tell me it sucks, just give me a way to make it better... please?

Thanks,

Ben

 

[RAMI]

Cool intro. Very cool riff. You guys are 15 years old? Awesome. Without knowing what you're recording into, etc...It' hard to tell you how to improve it. But I'll tell you one thing. It's not bad at all. The tempo seems to almost fall apart a few times, but it always comes back together. You might want to bring up the snare and bass drum. Maybe the vocals shouldn't be panned to the side for the whole tune, though it is a cool effect. At least you guys didn't over do effects, the voclas are and dry and understandeable. The guitar riff sort of reminds of "Cult of Personality" from Living Color. Keep it up guys, it's pretty good and pretty damn heavy.

 

[4NEK8ER]

The drums sound distorted from over compressing them. The hi hat is really tinny and annoying.

 

[emergencyexit]

The drums sound distorted from over compressing them. The hi hat is really tinny and annoying.

Funny you say that since most of what you hear is actually drumagog at work. Yes i noticed the his were a little over the top when I was mixing it and I guess on some players its really anoying I'll fix that. Drums mostly aren't compressed because there doesn't seem to be a need with drumagog, but it is possible that the overheads are too compressed. Here are the settings on that.

Threshold: -18 db
Ratio: 4.4:1
Attack: 0 ms (I know a lot of people would swear by that being wrong but I kinda like the sound that way)
Release: 92.0 ms
Knee: 0.7 (towards the softer side)
Gain: 0 db

As for our equipment:

For drums we recorded 2 MXL 603S condensers (overheads), 5 shure sm-57s (2 snare, 3 toms) and one beta-52 (kick drum). All going into 4 M-AUDIO Audiobuddy pres (these have 2 pres for each) running into a MOTU 828 MK II A/D converter soundcard that goes through firewire into our G4 powerbook running Logic express 7. All files are recorded onto a 120 gig external firewire hard drive.

Guitar was DI into our Audiobuddy/MOTU set up and we are using the logic Guitar amp distortion and compression and EQ. Bass was into our bassists effect board into a Peavy Head and a carvin 2 10 cab. This was miced with a Beta-52 on one speaker and two sm-57s stereo panned on the other.

Vocals had a lot of testing since we at first tried them through an sm-57, then sm-57 and the two MXLs then just the two MXLs then just one MXL and a pop filter. These all once again ran through our pres and MOTU.

In logic I am using Drumagog 4.2 and standard samples for snare bass drum and all the toms. Overheads are barely touched with just the compression shown above and a little reverb. Oh and the snare has just a touch of reverb, but not so much cause I kinda like the crisp sound.

RAMI- THANKS MAN! Didn't know it wasn't bad at all. For all I know with my young ears, it could be awful. Yes I know the bass drum and snare are a little low, but I sort of purposly did that because I'm mixing this in the sort of way that Killswitch Engage on "The End of Heartache" vs Bloodsimple on "A Cruel World". I know that song Cult of Personality and I happen to love it, Thanks for that RAMI.

Any other critique guys? I know you have more to throw at me!

Ben

 

[Kronpox]

That riff's interesting, but you guys really have to sort out your timing. You also have a lot of tracks randomly clipping in particularly ugly ways. Sounds pretty good, though. I like what you do with the bass.

 

[tourettes5139]

Good job! I too would like to hear the kick and snare come out into the foreground a little more, but I understand that is not what you were going for. I really like being able to hear the bass guitar. All too often in metal songs it seems like the bass gets buried. I think the drums were clipping a little bit, I mainly noticed it at around 2:52, when the drums are doing a solo fill. But yeah, not bad!

 

[ocnor]

Funny you say that since most of what you hear is actually drumagog at work. Yes i noticed the his were a little over the top when I was mixing it and I guess on some players its really anoying I'll fix that. Drums mostly aren't compressed because there doesn't seem to be a need with drumagog, but it is possible that the overheads are too compressed. Here are the settings on that.


For drums we recorded 2 MXL 603S condensers (overheads), 5 shure sm-57s (2 snare, 3 toms) and one beta-52 (kick drum). All going into 4 M-AUDIO Audiobuddy pres (these have 2 pres for each) running into a MOTU 828 MK II A/D converter soundcard that goes through firewire into our G4 powerbook running Logic express 7. All files are recorded onto a 120 gig external firewire hard drive.



In logic I am using Drumagog 4.2 and standard samples for snare bass drum and all the toms. Overheads are barely touched with just the compression shown above and a little reverb. Oh and the snare has just a touch of reverb, but not so much cause I kinda like the crisp sound.

Pardon my ignorance but if you used Drumagog why did you need 8 mics on the drum kit? I think that I know what 4NEK8ER was refering to. At about 2:52 the distortion on the drums during the fill becomes apparent. If that is Drumagog then you should maybe get some better samples.

 

[giraffe]

fade your edits (BIG clicks, actually, maby it's gate settings... whatever)

little more kick and snare

not a big fan of the panned delayed vox, but thats just me. (R hits first)

strange git sounds, but i like..... different.

try useing slower attack times on your compression.... all-around.

i like.

 

[emergencyexit]

Pardon my ignorance but if you used Drumagog why did you need 8 mics on the druhttps://homerecording.com/bbs/images/editor/separator.gif
https://homerecording.com/bbs/images/editor/separator.gifm kit? I think that I know what 4NEK8ER was refering to. At about 2:52 the distortion on the drums during the fill becomes apparent. If that is Drumagog then you should maybe get some better samples.

We had 8 mics because we didn't know that we were gonna use drumagog at first so we double miced snare. I'll check out that distortion I dunno why I didn't hear it. Maybe I should listen through my other M-AUDIO speakers. Also I haven't raised the bass drum because I'm a little embarassed by the samples that come with drumagog (since i dont have money to purchase an expansion pack) . Does anyone have a sample of a really good bass drum that would fit this song? I'd put up what the compression settings are on guitar but I'm not at my computer right now. I'll post again later about that. But how about those bass drum samples? Also do you think the overheads are compressed right? I'm new to using actuall compression plug-ins so I'd like to know if i'm doing it kinda right...

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

[emergencyexit]

Changed the bass drum sample, and brought up it and the snare. Added some stuff to the master track too, and tried to fix some clipping. MORE CRITIQUE NEEDED.

Thanks,

Ben

 

[tourettes5139]

It sounds like the bass and kick are battling for the low-end real estate, and the bass is winning. I would still like to hear more kick, but bear in mind that I am listening on laptop speakers right now, so the above comment may not apply! Maybe try to get a little more clarity on the kick.....I think you still have some clipping problems too, they might have been there during the recording process as opposed to the mixing process. If so, there's not much you can do. My two cents.

 

[monkeymanx]

Sounds like the singer makes it clip sometimes. That high hat kind of hurts the ears a bit. Try lowering frequencies above 10Khz on the cymbals. Everything sounds very pushed to the limits too. You using a limiter?

 

[emergencyexit]

There is a limiter on the master track and the guitars i believe, not at the file right now so that might not be right. Do you think that is wrong??

 

[monkeymanx]

I usually limit the end of the mix after everything is done. Louder isn't always better, although it may seem that ways now a days.

 

[emergencyexit]

I usually limit the end of the mix after everything is done. Louder isn't always better, although it may seem that ways now a days.

Is my mix too loud? I've had times before when it was maxing like hell because of that kind of ignorance, but I thought I was past that. Guess i'm not, is my mix too loud?

Ben

 

[monkeymanx]

I just notice it seems like the singer sometimes overloads the mix. Maybe take down the guitars a notch too, and if you do have a limiter on them, try taking it off. What are you using to mix and record, Cubase? Sonar?

 

[emergencyexit]

I actually think i said it before in this thread but that ok . I'm recording into Logic Express 7. Yes this is for mac so many of you may not be farmilier with it, but it comes with plug-ins like crazy! I swear I counted like 50 to start then one day found a whole new set of like 50! I'll take the limiter off the guitar and maybe turn them down a bit. I'm not really sure what the vocal clipping is but I know its there. I took the vocal tracks down, but for some reason I still hear that clipping...?!? Any ideas?

Thanks

Ben

 

[monkeymanx]

Playback the song and watch you master volume without the limiter and see how much clipping occurs, that may be a good place to start. Also watch the other tracks in the song individually to check for it.