diggy_dude
Now 169% diggier!
Is there a good reason to pay damn near retail for a vintage unit?
ranjam
New member
Define 'good reason'.
S
stevieb
Just another guy, really.
I have a vintage Rat- I have not compared it to the newer ones. From what I read on the 'net, the vintage units do have a better sound.
Proco warranties them, for freaking ever. They agreed to replace the switch on mine, with just a phone call!
Wanna buy mine? PM me.
Proco warranties them, for freaking ever. They agreed to replace the switch on mine, with just a phone call!
Wanna buy mine? PM me.
diggy_dude
Now 169% diggier!
PM sent! 
aaronmcoleman
The truth is out there!
From what I've read, the old ones had better switches so they'll last longer, there are a number of parts swaps so the sound is different even if they are all quality parts, some cheaper capacitors, and I think they changed away from the 308 chip which was a huge part of the sound.
So all in all, the new rat is not the old rat, it's a similar schematic with different parts. I also know Keeley charges more to mod the new (post 2008) rats because of the 308 chip. I would go with the older one, or if you really want a new one, get it moded for $99.
I am not 100% sure, this is just what I've heard. I also know Healy
So all in all, the new rat is not the old rat, it's a similar schematic with different parts. I also know Keeley charges more to mod the new (post 2008) rats because of the 308 chip. I would go with the older one, or if you really want a new one, get it moded for $99.
I am not 100% sure, this is just what I've heard. I also know Healy
fuzzsniffvoyage
Well-known member
I have never used the old Rat, but my wife bought me a new one last Christmas and I love it, I use it for bass gtr too!
diggy_dude
Now 169% diggier!
I knew a guy in a local blues/rock band who never used anything but an old Rat and an Ampeg amp. I went to a lot of his shows and loved the sound of it.
N
notCardio
I walk the line
I've got an old one, and like everything else, I have phases wher I like it, and phases where I don't, but then, it's not a sound I'm generally trying to get.
Never thought about it for bass, though. I'll have to try it. Not really into 'fuzz' bass, but I sometimes want just a little grit. Been thinking about getting a SansAmp bass DI, but I'll dig out my Rat and try it first. Thanks for the suggestion.
Never thought about it for bass, though. I'll have to try it. Not really into 'fuzz' bass, but I sometimes want just a little grit. Been thinking about getting a SansAmp bass DI, but I'll dig out my Rat and try it first. Thanks for the suggestion.
fat_fleet
Swollen Member
me either, and i used one for like 20 years without thinking twice about it. it's a brittle harsh tone and kind of noisy too, but i do have an old one with the coveted 308 chip and i've thought about getting it Keeley-modded a few times.
wasn't crazy about it on bass either, but i guess it depends what you're looking for. generally i get a creamier more usable tone from an ehx muff.
for guitar lately i've been using an MXR GT-OD, but i've been thinking about picking up a Fulltone lately.
diggy_dude
Now 169% diggier!
That harsh, gritty tone is what's missing from my arsenal. That's what made me think of getting a Rat.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
Interestingly I played in a band with a guy that used an Ampeg V-2, which I now have, and a Rat.
He got a great sound ..... this would have been around 1982.
Wireneck
New member
Bassist has a keeley modded one and it sounds great for gritty bass tones. Your mileage may vary. Never tried it on guitar....
diggy_dude
Now 169% diggier!
This was in the early to mid 1990s. The guy called himself "Doc Louie".
ranjam
New member
It's difficult to explain, but I've never bought into the hype that a different IC sounds different. It's just something that doesn't pass my stink test. I think of it as passed-the-expiry-date milk. It might be OK, but the smell makes me avoid it regardless.
If you look at the schematic, there isn't even a buffer in front of the IC, but the clipping diodes keep the output clamped at 0.3V, so as long as the IC can make just a little bit over unity gain, you're distorting. It'll be the circuit that changed slightly, and not just the IC that makes it sound 'different'. Or maybe the biasing makes it sound a little different? I don't know, but I'll stick to my original opinion. Any Rat still needs tweaking to not make anyone sound like a bad 80's hair metal band.
If you look at the schematic, there isn't even a buffer in front of the IC, but the clipping diodes keep the output clamped at 0.3V, so as long as the IC can make just a little bit over unity gain, you're distorting. It'll be the circuit that changed slightly, and not just the IC that makes it sound 'different'. Or maybe the biasing makes it sound a little different? I don't know, but I'll stick to my original opinion. Any Rat still needs tweaking to not make anyone sound like a bad 80's hair metal band.
aaronmcoleman
The truth is out there!
I agree with the last part about hairbands. But as for the ICs, there is some difference in sound. I can't tell you the technical stuff...because I don't know it. I do know in the pedals I've built, I've swapped various ICs to see if there really is a difference, and to my ears I can hear it with no other changes to the entire circuit. That's just what I've found from my own very unscientfic research.
diggy_dude
Now 169% diggier!
I have to agree. I just listened to some side-by-side comparisons on YouTube. The original is definitely crisper. The new ones sound a bit muffled.
heatmiser
mr. green christmas
I have one that I bought new in maybe 1990...does that make it an old one? I too use it in conjunction with an old ampeg amp.
It is built like a tank, that's fer sure, but I've never been wild about the tone myself. Used in moderation, with much fiddling, it can add some nice subtle grit, but that distortion knob is so sensitive...it goes from...nothing, to, I think I hear some slight break up, to Holy Crap! - I suddenly sound like ratt or poison or something. Sigh.
It is built like a tank, that's fer sure, but I've never been wild about the tone myself. Used in moderation, with much fiddling, it can add some nice subtle grit, but that distortion knob is so sensitive...it goes from...nothing, to, I think I hear some slight break up, to Holy Crap! - I suddenly sound like ratt or poison or something. Sigh.
aaronmcoleman
The truth is out there!
I think the major changes came around 2008 when the 308 IC was changed. So you have the old one. Congratulations! Go celebrate.
Bob Ross
Your god hates me
I don't think it ever even occurred to me to use a Rat for anything subtle; it does that screaming over-the-top fuzz so well, and there are better ways to do not-quite-screaming, under-the-top distortion or crunch...use the right tool for the job. I've got old TS9's and SansAmps and tiny tube amps that do the latter great, but I often surprise myself at how perfect a Rat is at doing the former.
(My Rat is from 1988, fwiw.)
diggy_dude
Now 169% diggier!
That's funny. I think of the Rat as being crunchy and the TS-9 as being fuzzy.