New Industry Standard of Recording?

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johneeeveee

johneeeveee

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hi,
this subject seemed to keep popping up on other threads i was participating in, and i thought it might warrant some more input. there was no perfect place for this topic, but i'm hoping this forum will be appropriate, since i'm assuming a lot of engineers hang out here.
here goes: it seems the current industry standard of production, on many major releases (not all) relies as much (or more) on the engineer and the producer, as it does on the artist. with so much processing available to both home and pro studios (plug ins, pitch correction, endless editing), i'm wondering how this has affected the perspective of engineers of all levels, and their approach to recording. has this seamless, ultraslick, highly processed, norm changed what we consider a good sounding recording and how we go about getting it?
thanks- jv
 
...

I still think the best way to make a great recording is to have the musician's be talented and know their instruments, then just get the source of the sound recorded properly so minimal editing is necessary.
 
It makes it easier to polish turds but it hasn't really changed the standards of what is good. If anything that standard has been lowered over the last decade.
 
It's made it easier (especially for the recording establishment) to churn out garbage. The standard has indeed been lowered.
 
see, what you have to remember is that the RIAA isn't about making good (or good sounding) albums. The RIAA wants to move units.

the major demographic that buys albums are 9-14 year old girls. most of us (let alone our music) don't appeal to that demographic. it's really quite simple.

i'm into music b/c i enjoy it. it's a reprieve from my daily tedium dealing with servers. lord knows i sure wouldn't want this to be my only (or main) source of income. it'd drive me insane.


wade
 
i dont think standards have increased, just broadend... and the role of engineer/producer has become just as inportant as that of guitarist/drummer etc.. we are at a point where creative engineering (no matter how questionable) is becoming publicly acceptable and engineers are no longer an inconsequential entity...

as far as the "percieved industry standard" is concerened i think we can blame mastering engineers for the current state of affairs. ;)
 
I think producers have ALWAYS been important... Take the Motown producers... or the British Invasion producers etc... those guys made the sounds.

The problem is now, that the equipment etc exists that a good producer can take a talentless band and make them sound acceptable.

So in essence, the producer is even more important than the guys in the band anymore.

The engineer also is important, as they have the be the ones that have to polish the turd as much as possible during the tracking so that the producer can use their fecal remover plugins to make the tracks "sparkle" like diamonds ;P

Velvet Elvis
 
well

as a one man band/songwriter/audio engineer/record producer etc ive been striving to get songs to sound like the "old ways".
and not compresss the heck out of a mix. just let it sound natural, warts and all. it is my belief certainly from the emails i get about my songs on soundclick that there is a huge disaffected
audience out there that yearns for us new songwriters to
get back to the old days of writing a song that people can whistle to , and/or make them smile. this possibly explains why the
industry has been experiencing revenue problems in many areas.
the record buying public want us to get back to good songwriting like say "singing in the rain", or some of the other oldies like
the big names used to do or say clasics like "china grove",
or "secret agent man" etc like the old songs of the 50's thru
mid 90's. so i'm constantly striving to write better songs.
sometimes a piece of magic happens. but i throw away more lyrics
and songs than i keep, and often fail miserably.
my wife and family and friends and close acquantances are my toughest critics. which is good. keeps me on my toes.
 
all good points...

... i think most of us will agree that great performances of great songs that are recorded accurately, IS the standard by which we all try to adhere. in truth, we also know that there are poorly crafted songs out there, with sub par performances being "fixed later" with the new technology. i'm not sure of the numbers, but i fear that this practice is conditioning quite a bit of the listenership out there into thinking that this is how stuff should sound, and also trickling down to young engineers who simply wish to keep their clients happy.
i personally don't care if it's analog or digital, (although the sweet sound of tape being pushed still makes me weak), but i just want to hear well recorded tracks of something that moves me, or moves somebody.
from the responses to this thread, i must say i am happy to see that there are plenty of folks that are serious about getting tone to tape (or pc, or whatever), and that plugins and such are an afterthought. an engineer at home, or in a pro studio that knows what mic to use and where to put it, is much more important in my book than one who knows how to "polish a turd" (i thought i was the only person who used that expression... i love it).
of course, it's also up to the artists out there to keep the bar high, by honing their craft, and giving the engineers something to work with.
peace - jv
 
frankly jv

having used very expensive multimillion dollar studios and equipment down to cheap 50 dollar mics and other cheap equipment. i remain a tad sceptical about using all expensive equipment in the signal chain. one of my songs on sound click
called the working mans song ive had loads of positive emails about. this song has received more plays and positive emails than some of my other songs done in very expensive studios.
and yet i used on it DIY preamps (i'm a computer engineer by training - and i dont mean someone whose built a few clones
for friends, but a real engineer) plus pretty inexpensive mics.
working mans song taught me one thing. PEOPLE GO FOR THE SONG over equipment used. PEOPLE GO FOR A VIBE or a painted sound picture they like. in summary i constantly strive to be an audio picture painter. you listen to the intro to say david lindleys mercury blues. tremendous example of great picture painting.
it grabs my heart every time i listen to it. the pounding beat and guitar sound. just a truly great song. how i wish i couldcome close !
 
EVERY SONG SHOULD TELL A STORY IMHO

actually jv, this has got me thinking. some of the things you and others have said.
many people have commented to me also that no one writes songs anymore that TELL A STORY WITH EMOTION.
a common thread that runs through the comments on
my own songs at soundclick is folks seem to like the ones that tell
a story. so i have strived to produce songs that tell a story.
like "Kind and gentle man", "whole of london town is crying",
"Woohoo", "Old folks sleeping in the streets", "Lady in the white corvette" as examples.
all ive been told repeatedly by lots of folks could see major success if they hit the major air waves because they tell a story/and/or have a vibe.
I really really dont know. one of the problems in being a
songwriter is one is too close to the songs. i force myself constantly to STEP BACK from the song and look at it from the listeners view.
but i think a lot of songwriters have forgotten about the idea of telling a story in a song, or putting REAL HUMAN FEELINGS in a song. people CONNECT WITH REAL EMOTIONS it seems.
for example london town is all about the pain i felt losing my dad and grandparents.
i have had amazing comments about this song. i can only guess that others have been through the same pain and connect with the song.
people really seem to connect with real feelings in a song over flashy production techniques anyday.
also what amazes me with some young songwriters is the desire for instant huge success. frankly having just signed my first ever deal with a label i'm a tad scared. I did not approach any label and was surprised when i was approached
by three this year. i can only think that MAYBE record labels are realising they need to try new approaches with new unknowns.
Also I dont undrstand this desire TO MAKE IT BIG that a lot of youngsters have.
I guess i was put off over the years by meeting a few big names and hearing first hand about the downsides.
like the loss of personal family time, stress and constant media attention, and constant pressure to produce the next big song, and of course the touring.
jv - i write songs purely because i find it FUN. i think a lot of
newbies get so caught up in the technology and playing with it like a VIDEO GAME or some new hot piece of software or say a new firewire interface or sound card they stop focusing on writing good songs.
I dont know if i have what it takes or not. I just focus on the songs rather than the technology, and do my best on each song.
and hope folks derive some pleasure from my efforts.
my problem is i have too many songs in me and not enough time
to produce them. As an amusing aside i've lost count the number
of times newbies have listened to one of my songs and said
"I can do that". then 6 months later and after investing 20k in a studio i politely ask where are the songs ? and they tell me , well, its a lot harder than what i thought.
In summary song production looks easy from the outside but in REALITY its a huge amount of work. which a lot find daunting.
I'm always encouraging newbies that i know to just keep going. On each of my songs i reckon i put in minimum about 300 hours production work, and STILL i fail miserably on some songs.
but hey - its in my blood. who knows why. crazyness perhaps ?
 
awright...

... it's great to hear from people who have been around the block, obviously know what they like to hear, and probably how to capture it most of the time. yep, the song is king, and insightful and creative recording techniques, embellished with appropriate production is an art unto itself.
what mrface said about the biggest demographic of music buyers in the u.s. being adolescent girls is true. with the big record companies scurrying to keep things out of the red, it's no wonder the industry and it's "sound" have been homogenized and glossed over. more and more actors and celebrities are being added to the mix because of their "name recognition" and draw in this powerful demographic. with real time pitch correction, and unlimited editing, now anyone can sing:(.
the response here seems to support the idea that a lot of independent artists are writing and recording their own songs without giving much thought to keeping up with the major label "joneses". they just want their shit to sound good, to them.
i know that sounds like a no brainer, but it still inspires me to hear it.
peace- jv
 
manning...

... yeah songwriting is fun, and i'm sure part of the reason that young engineers play with so many plugins and such, is because it's fun. in time, the ones that are really bitten by the writing and recording bug, will probably find their way to the real art of recording a well crafted song. in the meantime, i think it's great that you share your thoughts and take the time to write all these articles to try and hip the newbies to the big picture.
i fear that we are once again straying from the subject... one that i couldn't really find a perfect place for on this forum. the input from the folks who posted was great, and i welcome any more views that are out there, or variations on the subject.
peace - jv
 
Producers bring to the table a forumla churning out hits. Much like McDonalds or Coca-Cola, producers have been chosen for their brand of production methods. Engineers still play the background. Proof of that would be to ask anyone who is even moderately interested in music who engineered the DMB album Everyday and you'll probably here "Glen Ballard". Yeah he produced it, but who engineered it?

??????

I don't think things have really changed much. Pop is still pop. Rock is still rock. Okay, country and rap have changed quite a bit (and definitely not for the best). R & B and soul music is still keeping the formula alive. You can get lost in the sub-genres and the way things have progressed or recessed within them, but that would just take way too long. The bleak outlook on music today is due to the overwhelming lack of options. I mean, the biggest change in the past 20 years that has occured in music is the consolidation of radio broadcasters under one banner and MTV's focus change from cable music station to future network hopeful. Today's lesson should be just how many organizations were influenced by MTV. So many that when MTV scaled back the amount of videos shown per day (and limiting the videos to just "the hits") pretty much every other avenue of music marketing shifted right along with them.

There's still great music out there everywhere, you just can't rely on MTV to help you find it anymore. Getting back on topic, Production aspects of pop haven't changed at all. Rock production has changed in the fact that better sounding rock albums are being made through applying pop production to harder music. I'm kind of ashamed to admit it, but I prefer the pop production style to hard rock than I have the former methods. Today's rock albums sound much better to me than one's from the past. An example is Queens of the Stone Age's new album, which I consider one of the best sounding hard rock albums to date.

Where am I going with this.

Okay, I got way off topic.

Nevermind, just listen to converge and everything will be alright........:)
 
rvdsm...

yes, there are many aspects of the industry that are homogenizing what we hear, unless we dig around. you brought up some really good points, including how great the last queens of the stone age record is. serious shit.
damn, what was this thread about?
peace - jv
 
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