Neumann TLM-103 or AKG Solid Tube?

  • Thread starter Thread starter caretaker9
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Sometimes it's very difficult to describe the sound of a microphone in words, so simple text reviews aren't always the best solution. Especially when there's so much hype surrounding some of the mic reviews.

When the Neumann TLM103 first came out in 1997, I was one of the first people to get my hands on one (serial # is under 500) and a lot of the pros on rec.audio.pro were very interested in how it sounded. There were few reviews out yet, and I decided to provide something meaningful in the way of a review of the mic.

I was right in the middle of producing the first rec.audio.pro CD set compilation and I was recording a country album at the same time. I figured why not record all the acoustic instruments with the 103 and put it on the compilation? And that's what I did. I recorded 2 acoustic guitars, mandolin, fiddle, main vocals, and all the backup vocals with only the TLM103.

It wound up being the lead track of the first four disc rec.audio.pro compilation set. There's an mp3 of the track here:

http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/63/alex_whitmore.html

The song is called: "Not At Home On The Range".

The tracking information is at:

http://www.hoohahrecords.com/rap/vol_1/index.htm

Go to Disc 1 from there.

The arrangement I did is in the style of "Asleep At The Wheel" or "Bob Wills And The Texas Playboys" - Western Swing.
 
which as you both can see if you look at the review is covered there as well.

it probably sounds more like the u87 than the solid tube does.

yes yes yes. of course youre all right.

it probably sounds more like the u87 than the studio projects mics do. even though lots of ppls say the studio projects sound like a u87.

its probably a perfectly good piece of gear and if the dood buys it life will go on...

tlm stands for transformerless microphone and the fact of the transformer being gone changes the sound and means the mic can be shorter.

i dont own either one and neumann wont send them to me for some odd reason or i would post a review of my own.

night and day? please.
 
jeap said:

night and day? please.
Click to expand...

Listen to how a tlm103 handles vocal esses compared to the u87 and you'll understand what I am talking about.
 
hi harvey,

Did you mic the vocals on that mp3 with the tlm103?
 
CyanJaguar said:
hi harvey,
Did you mic the vocals on that mp3 with the tlm103?
Click to expand...
Harvey Gerst said:
...I recorded 2 acoustic guitars, mandolin, fiddle, main vocals, and all the backup vocals with only the TLM103.
Click to expand...
Says he did.
 
CyanJaguar said:
hi harvey,

Did you mic the vocals on that mp3 with the tlm103?
Click to expand...
Yup, the main vocal, all the backup vocals. the acoustic guitars, the mandolin, and the fiddle were all miked with the TLM103.

That was how I kinda backed into doing reviews on the net. The next thing I reviewed was the RNC, and I happened to have a full Neutrik A-2 test station on loan when the RNC came in, so I decided to put it thru the ringer. It was so much better than the published specs, I thought I was measuring the residual noise and distortion of the test station.

I posted my results on rec.audio.pro, and apparently, it helped boost Mark's sales considerably. After that, a few manufacturers sought me out since it seemed I was honest, pretty thorough, and I didn't have any obvious biases or hidden agendas.

I was simply a small studio owner, with hopefully, a pretty good ear, and with a long background in the pro music business, and a pretty honorable reputation. I'm sure the fact that I had a lot of the major players as friends probably didn't hurt either.

After that first "review", I did some testing of the entire Oktava line from the Sound Room, the Marshall line of mics, the Studio Project line of mics, and hopefully soon, the RNMP. All those tests eventually did help contribute to writing the "big thread" since it forced me to communicate complex ideas in a more easy to understand way.

My reviewing days are also coming to an end, since the studio has become almost self supporting, and requires a lot more of my time. But I'll continue to post here when I find something that may be of value to some of you (like the ECM8000), or I find something I don't think is all that useful (like the C3000), and you can take my opinions for what they are - just my opinions.
 
wascal said:
look again.

it says hugh robjohns.

i cant help it if the link thing screwed up.

all i get for an address is the search thing.

so...
Click to expand...

OK. My mistake. I'm not used to looking for the author's name buried in the middle of the text of the article... Your semester grade has been amended to B+.

From the review, it is clear that this particular reviewer cannot hear any significant difference between a TLM103 and a U87. Unfortunately, I have no familiarity with this reviewer, so I have no idea how good his ears are or how valid his opinions. Unless I missed something again in rereading the review, there is NO indication of what sound sources he tested the mic on (vocals, instruments?) in what sort of room and through what sort of recording chain/devices. I would think that at least SOME of that information would be just as pertinent as the technical descriptions. (It's possible he included it originally and it got edited out.) Without any description of his listening tests we're really being asked to take his opinions totally on faith.

As far as his conclusions, if Dave Moulton or Harvey or someone else who's opinion I trusted said it, I might be more inclined to take it on faith. I would also be more inclined to believe it if I had heard ANYONE else say they couldn't tell the difference, but so far this guy is the only one. And others, who have had hands on experience (like cyanjaguar) clearly disagree.

Hugh Robjohns MIGHT be 100% right, but my suggestion to you, wascal, is not to ever put a whole lot of credence in a single somewhat flawed magazine review, especially if you don't know the larger body of work by the reviewer. It's useful input, to be sure, but not enough by itself to prove a point or discredit anyone else's opinion.

(Please remember, wascal, I'm AGREEING with you about liking the mic. But i like the mic because I own it and use it and have compared it to the other mics I own and use, not because someone in a magazine told me to like it.)
 
it seems like virtually EVERYBODY likes the mic! i trust harvey's opinion and im glad he liked it!

my intention was to give the dood some encouragement to go ahead and make that purchase! he knows he wants to!

NOW LITTLEDOG IS TRYING TO FORCE ME TO IMPORT OTHER REVIEWS THAT MAKE SIMILAR STATEMENTS TO THE SOS ARTICLE!!!

hugh robjohns is highly respected. do you need proof of that too? sos is not a cheerleader rag like some of the others (specifically intermusic.com).

really. all i wanted to do is give the guy a little encouragement.

:p
 
jeap said:
my intention was to give the dood some encouragement to go ahead and make that purchase! he knows he wants to!

really. all i wanted to do is give the guy a little encouragement.

:p
Click to expand...

Enabler :D




Don
 
Alright Jeap... don't feel cornered; I appreciate your encouragement, and value everyone's opinion. Thanks for chiming in, Harvey, it is an honor to read your take on things... I'm going to take a listen to that track later tonight...

- 'dood':D :rolleyes:
 
Caretaker, just thought I'd add a note on vocal mics. It seems to me there's an older darker tube sound and a newer brighter FET sound. I use Solid Tube for one, and C3 for the other. I picked up an Oktava MK319 yesterday for $99- couldn't resist it at that price point. It seems to fall right about in between the two, and is a good cheap compromise when neither of the others is quite what I'm lookung for. With vocals, there's no one perfect mic, it's like matching a dress to a woman, so you need to have options. Try something old and dark, something new and shiny, something cheap and Russian, and if all else fails try an AKG D690 dynamic, for my money one of the best vocal mics ever made. I bought one yesterday from GC for about $36!- Richie
 
Thanks Richie, I shall research those models you mentioned... good analogy regarding the mic options; you're right on the money there!:D
 
Yes, no kidding- GC, Natick Mass. And there's actually nothing wrong with it.-Richie
P.S. I thing it might help if you start by buying about $15,000 worth of gear there-Richie
 
As we're quoting reviews, Paul White (also from Sound on Sound) described the Solidtube as "the best-sounding sub £1000 mic I've heard" when he reviewed it. I've also read reviews where people have A/B'd it with a C12 and not been able to tell the difference.

It's a great mic,and no mistake. I did have a rude awakening with it a while ago, though.

I'd been recording a punk band and the time had come to get the vocals down. I set my usual mic up (Solidtube), pressed "record" and away we went.

The vocals sounded like absolute shit.

I replaced the Solidtube with my 4033, and voila - perfect vocal sound. An important lesson learnt. Now I check which mics sound best with whatever vocalist I'm recording - I've even used an ECM8000 for lead vocals because of this!

I've since used the Solidtube on other vocalists, and it sounds superb. Just doesn't suit everybody, I suppose. The 4033, however, while not sounding as good as the Solidtube on a lot of stuff, is still an utterly consistent piece of kit. If you can afford both, then I'd say "go for it".

Of course, the TLM103 does say "Neumann" on it...damn those choices.
 
the solid tube sounds like the c12 or the reissue c12?

jajajajajajajajajajajajajajajaja!

i bet the solid tube does sound good!

a lot of ppls rag on akg stuff but i love their headphones and would love to have their microphones! one of each!

:p
 
Phildo... Good point. Gotta have a virtual arsenal available in the mic locker! A LOT of different voices out there! Thanks for the reference...:D
 
Phildo said:
I've also read reviews where people have A/B'd it with a C12 and not been able to tell the difference.
Click to expand...

Dear Phildo:

Assuming your statement and/or memory is accurate:

Step 1: Make a list of those people

Step 2: If you ever read or hear anything else those people say, remember to totally disregard it.

Step 3: Consider cancelling subscriptions to any magazine that would employ such people as reviewers.

:confused: :eek: :( :mad:
 
Harvey... If your still following this thread, I just listened to 'Not At Home On The Range'... Wow... What a truly pro recording. That TLM-103 sounds really nice on the instruments! The vocal sounds really natural; what effects did you use on the lead vocal, if any? It sounds right up front. Great examples of what can be done with that TLM-103... Did you consider any other mics for the lead vocal, or maybe a better question would be, what other mics could be in contention for the application? Great backgrounds, too, by the way... :)

"far t...oo smelly":D :D :D :D

-caretaker9...
 
littledog said:


Dear Phildo:

Assuming your statement and/or memory is accurate:

Step 1: Make a list of those people

Step 2: If you ever read or hear anything else those people say, remember to totally disregard it.

Step 3: Consider cancelling subscriptions to any magazine that would employ such people as reviewers.

:confused: :eek: :( :mad:
Click to expand...

yes. do what littledog said
 
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