Need to tame the bass guitar!

[YanKleber]

So!

Recently I made some mixes and they seemed to be OK so far for me through my cheap monitors (Edifier R1000) and my garbage cans.

Happens that at the mix time I 'guessed' that my monitors had too much bass and that so I should atenuate them. So I turned completely down a pot in the back of the monitors that allows you control the ammount of the bass. Listening to the mixes on some sources I have in home (cheap phones, iPhone, iPad, TV, wife's stereo, etc) everything seemed to be fine until I listen to it with my new cans (Sennheiser HD 202). At first glance I thought that the cans were the culprit for the excess of bass but then listening to some commercial tracks I noticed that there is not the same amount of bass so the cans are not so many accentuated in the bass as I thought.

Long story short although there is definitively a peak in the bass section of the HD 202 mostly of the 'excess' I am hearing comes from my mix so I definitively have to tame the low frequencies on'em specially in the bass guitar (kicks are fine). Now I think that instead of cut the bass of my monitors I should have to do exactly the inverse, that is to crank it up to maximum!

Anyway, my question is: what is more effective to do in the mix in this particular case... reduce the volume of the bass guitar by fading out its track or cut its main frequency with EQ? I understand that if I use the fader I will cut all the bass guitar frequencies at once while EQing it I will fade out only that particular frequency.

Suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[RAMI]

Without hearing it, we can only guess. In some cases, simply turning down the bass is what's needed. In other cases, it's just a boomy frequency(s). You have to use your judgement on that. But it's impossible for anyone here to give you a definitive answer based on anything other than a guess.

 

[YanKleber]

Here, Rami -- the bass in this mix is sounding specially exagerated (even blurred) for me.



Thanks!

 

[RAMI]

I don't think it sounds particularly bad. If anything, I'd say just turn the bass guitar down a bit. But I don't hear anything that's a major problem. The vocals sound like they can use some brightness. They just sound slightly "darK". But, generally, this sounds pretty good. Love the guitar solo.

She's got to work on her pronunciation. I can't understand a word she's saying.

 

[mjbphotos]

The bass is too loud in the mix for my taste, whether you tame it with volume or EQ probably doesn't make any difference as there does not seem to be much in it for harmonics, sounds very basic in tone.

 

[MusicWater]

what is more effective to do in the mix in this particular case... reduce the volume of the bass guitar by fading out its track or cut its main frequency with EQ? I understand that if I use the fader I will cut all the bass guitar frequencies at once while EQing it I will fade out only that particular frequency.

Suggestions?

Thanks!

You are really challenging yourself with those 202, money aside there is no reason to, you have tons of better cans and speaker options out there.

In this case, because the bass guitar's high end is already so soft in volume (too soft), you should not make that issue worse by reducing the bass guitar in volume. Another thing is that the bass guitar is sort of the fundamental building block of your mix, if you drop its signal level too much, the vitality of the whole mix is going to take damage from that. All center panned sound sources assigned a lot of signal have a big impact on the mix sound, so be careful.

I agree with mjbphotos that the low end is too loud. The most efficient thing in my view is simply to cut the bass guitar's low frequency bands in volume a little and then raise the volume on the bass guitar to resolve the issue in its high end. (subtractive EQing) High end transients on the bass guitar can be distracting, but in this case you simply need a little more loudness there because its harmonics and higher notes can almost not be heard. What you can do also is to split that, so that 50% of it comes from a side chain to the kick and 50% comes from the low freq band signal cut. So doing all of these - cutting the low frequency bands in level a little, side chaining it with the kick's corresponding low frequency bands, raising the volume to resolve its high frequency issue (subtractive EQing) and slightly gaining the mix, will when combined create a better sounding mix.

 

[RAMI]

You can't boost what isn't there. Turning up the bass guitar isn't going to magically give you highs that weren't captured in the first place. The bass sound is dark. Period. If you find there's too much bass in the mix, just turn it down. No need to complicate something just because someone wants to try and sound intelligent.

 

[MusicWater]

You can't boost what isn't there. Turning up the bass guitar isn't going to magically give you highs that weren't captured in the first place. The bass sound is dark. Period. If you find there's too much bass in the mix, just turn it down. No need to complicate something just because someone wants to try and sound intelligent.

It's not about trying to sound intelligent. In this case it's about enhancing the perception of the bass guitar's upper harmonics and tones, adding a little punch to the kick, reducing the low end in signal strength a little and gaining the mix a little to add some vitality. It's simply a little too dense now, please read my post about the fletcher-munson curve that I posted earlier today.

When you deal with an issue like this, please note how it can be an opportunity of resolving a set of issues in the mix. Always when fixing an issue, think of how to do it in order to also resolve a set of other issues both on the same instrument but on other instruments in the mix as well. Else what can happen is that resolving one issue can make the other issues worse. In this case it's like that because the bass guitar's upper notes and harmonics are already too soft and reducing the volume on the bass guitar would make that issue even worse. So I'm not trying to sound smart at all, I'm just pointing toward that fact - don't resolve an issue in a way that makes another issue worse. Had also the bass guitar's mid and high frequencies been too loud, then it would have been a matter of reducing the bass guitar in volume. You touch the volume fader when you want all of the frequency bands of an instrument to become more or less loud and as a way of doing subtractive EQing.

 

[RAMI]

It's very simply. The bass was too loud. He needs to turn it down, or cut the lows. There are no high's in that sound. There are no high's in the sound to speak of.

 

[mixsit]

.. Now I think that instead of cut the bass of my monitors I should have to do exactly the inverse, that is to crank it up to maximum! ..

'Bass level or tone for this particular track aside for a moment to get this out the way.. The monitor ought to be set to as reasonably good balance you can asses, leave it and move on to learning your system's sound. That can include listening to some selected commercial tracks along the way, and for calibration' points of references to your own tracks can be useful.

 

[YanKleber]

I don't think it sounds particularly bad. If anything, I'd say just turn the bass guitar down a bit. But I don't hear anything that's a major problem. The vocals sound like they can use some brightness. They just sound slightly "darK". But, generally, this sounds pretty good.

Glad to know, I will try to turn it down and see if gets better!

Love the guitar solo.

Cool!

She's got to work on her pronunciation. I can't understand a word she's saying.

Joker!

 

[YanKleber]

The bass is too loud in the mix for my taste, whether you tame it with volume or EQ probably doesn't make any difference as there does not seem to be much in it for harmonics, sounds very basic in tone.

Probably because it is not a real bass guitar, but the 'BooBass' VST from FruityLoops. Beside, In this song I have turned the mids and highs completely to left and cranked up the bass. Maybe re-exporting the bass track with some mids and highs would help?

 

[RAMI]

Probably because it is not a real bass guitar, but the 'BooBass' VST from FruityLoops. Beside, In this song I have turned the mids and highs completely to left and cranked up the bass. Maybe re-exporting the bass track with some mids and highs would help?

Yeah, if it's something programmed that you can easily re-do with a different patch, or with the same patch with more high's, then that's your best bet, if you feel it should be changed.

 

[YanKleber]

'Bass level or tone for this particular track aside for a moment to get this out the way.. The monitor ought to be set to as reasonably good balance you can asses, leave it and move on to learning your system's sound. That can include listening to some selected commercial tracks along the way, and for calibration' points of references to your own tracks can be useful.

Totally! The new cans showed me part of my monitors deficiences. I think tha cranking up the bass control in the monitors to the maximum will help to find the proper intensity of the bass guitar.

Funny is that at first place I thiught that colored cans would be useless for me unless for enjoy listening, but ironically was this characteristic that catch my attention for this detail. A new lesson was learn here!

 

[gecko zzed]

I didn't mind the overall level of the bass.

I wasn't too keen on its sound. It also seemed a bit boomy around 240 (or maybe an octave lower at 120), and if you did an EQ cut around this area, you may get a more rounded, less intrusive sound.

Or try a different patch.

 

[YanKleber]

I didn't mind the overall level of the bass.

I wasn't too keen on its sound. It also seemed a bit boomy around 240 (or maybe an octave lower at 120), and if you did an EQ cut around this area, you may get a more rounded, less intrusive sound.

Or try a different patch.

Cool thanks Gecko!

 

[witzendoz]

Not too much wrong with the bass but not my favourite sound, Try doing a couple of db cut across the low end, in other words cut everything below 250hz by say 2 db.

I did find the vocals had a bit of a mid peak on some lines, somewhere around 1.2 to 2.4, did anyone else think so or was it just me?

Alan.

 

[rayc]

The bass was a bit bland as it hasn't any definition - it sounds like a synth bass.
If you want to fiddle with it cut by 6db or so at 100, add 6db at 200 and at 3k add 6 - 9db. Each of those should be faily narrow Qs. I'd also drop the level a bit.
Based on the old Motown system the "energy" should move up a little in the low end and the 3k peak would add some definition BUT if there're no highs to lift that won't do anything.
I recorded 20 seconds of your track and applied the above along with a DB or 2 drop in level.
I did the EQing before the level drop and things were tamed in the bottom end and a little definition was achieved with a massive 9db boost peak at 3k. The drop in level added to the management.
Personally I get my hands on a bass OR a better sample.
Oh, go the the RealTraps page, find the help section, download the tone test audio, get a level metre and test your room before fiddling with tone settings on your monitors. The test will give you some clues to what you room is doing to the sound.
As has been said a squillion times play a few CDs you know really well through your monitor set up - that'll give you an idea how the monitors & room are effecting the sound as well.

 

[YanKleber]

Cool, Ray, this info really helped a lot. I think I am going to pick a new sample of the bass (with highs and mids harmonics) or even try a different bass. I have another VST here that is based on samples I guess (at least it sounds too much more natural than this one). Also I will check the tone test thing and try to make the analize of my room. I hear usually my favorite CDs in the monitors and it's funny that the bass doesn't sound too much different from my mixes. I really felt this huge difference I mean in the phones. For sure the difference is there.

Cheers!

 

[Steenamaroo]

The bass was a bit bland as it hasn't any definition - it sounds like a synth bass.

Sometimes I use synth bass if the part doesn't call for much, but I usually cut out a lot of mids and run the output through waves gtr bass amp modeller. Of course the playing still sounds very mechanical but the tone is a bit more believable.
Something similar may be worth a try?

Keep in mind, though, I didn't listen to your clip.
Those steps might just be specific to my synth (xpand) and, as the guys said, you can't accentuate what isn't there.