Need Practical Advise On Monitors Please...

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Alexrkstr

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I am not a "Pro" at home recording but I do enjoy mixing and recording a LOT <I emphasize the "not a Pro">.

My dilemma is: What monitor pair is the most practical for my purposes and my application. . Here are options:

I am moving away from Alesis M1 Actives (6.5" woofer, 1" tweeter) to one of these options:
- Yamaha HS80M 8" ($800)
- JBL LSR 2328P 8 ($700)
- KRK Rockit 8 Gen 2 ($500)
- Yamaha HS50M 5" ($400)
- KRK Rockit 6 ($400)
- Behringer TRUTH B2031A ($360)
- KRK Rockit 5 ($300)
- Behringer TRUTH B2030A ($300)

I know it's a lot of options but what I want to make a point is that I am not looking for the VERY BEST, I am looking at the best "bang for the buck", I realize that the HS80M fit almost in another league with the JBLs but I am throwing them in in case the ones below completely suck.

Essentially I am looking for:
- FLATNESS above all...
- Flexibility in adjusting to the room (I live in an apartment)
- No distortion when cranked
- Same detail at high AND low levels
- Trying to stay at or below $400

Thank you all for your responses.
 
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Personally I've never been fan of KRKs or JBLs, although there are many who swear by them. Out of that list, I'd probably go for the Yamahas. Which one you go for, would depend on how much of a bottom end you want, and the size/acoustics of your room.

Watch out, you'll probably hear as many opinions here as you have monitors listed.

You might also want to through in the smaller Mackies and Genelecs in that mix as well.

Ultimately you should go to the music store, with two CDs in your hands, one that you have mixed and a commrecial one that you are very familiar with and ask the salesperson to play those CDs while switching between different pairs of monitors. That would put you in the right ball-park.
 
noisewreck said:
Personally I've never been fan of KRKs or JBLs, although there are many who swear by them. Out of that list, I'd probably go for the Yamahas. Which one you go for, would depend on how much of a bottom end you want, and the size/acoustics of your room.

Watch out, you'll probably hear as many opinions here as you have monitors listed.

You might also want to through in the smaller Mackies and Genelecs in that mix as well.

Ultimately you should go to the music store, with two CDs in your hands, one that you have mixed and a commrecial one that you are very familiar with and ask the salesperson to play those CDs while switching between different pairs of monitors. That would put you in the right ball-park.
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Hi noisewreck,
That's what I was thinking. The HS50M or the HS80M.... but the price difference is huge and for my purposes, I don't know if I need them?

My room is 12 x 12.

Which Mackies do you recommend?
 
I've got a pair of mackie hr824's and they're awesome...lots of bottom end. I would try purchasing a set....and trying them out in your room, and see how they sound. If they're not what you expect return them for another pair. My local retailer has a 30 day return policy if returned back in the original box.
 
qrs said:
I've got a pair of mackie hr824's and they're awesome...lots of bottom end. I would try purchasing a set....and trying them out in your room, and see how they sound. If they're not what you expect return them for another pair. My local retailer has a 30 day return policy if returned back in the original box.
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Thanks but the hr824 1) put me out of my budget and 2) are too much for amateur purposes...

I'm leaning towards the 5 inch Yamahas right now...
 
I don't know these speakers, but would presume that 'low distortion when cranked and same tone at high AND low levels might be at cross purpose with five inch drivers.
 
Im not sure where you are looking to buy your monitors, but if you have a sam ash or guitar center near you or something, try to haggle with them over the speakers. I have a pair of the HS80m monitors that I bought about 3 weeks ago. I went to Sam Ash first, who offered them at $700 total, and then I told guitar center what price I had been offered at Sam Ash, and they lowered the price an additional $50. If you are worried about spending $800, rather than concentrate on monitors that are a little less expensive, see what you can get if you feel as if these monitors are the way to go. I am very happy with them :D
 
TheNightman77 said:
Im not sure where you are looking to buy your monitors, but if you have a sam ash or guitar center near you or something, try to haggle with them over the speakers. I have a pair of the HS80m monitors that I bought about 3 weeks ago. I went to Sam Ash first, who offered them at $700 total, and then I told guitar center what price I had been offered at Sam Ash, and they lowered the price an additional $50. If you are worried about spending $800, rather than concentrate on monitors that are a little less expensive, see what you can get if you feel as if these monitors are the way to go. I am very happy with them :D
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Hi Nightman77 - the problem is that I do not have that flexibility of negotiating with the store since I will be using an Amazon gift card....

There are some mackies that look reasonably priced... any thoughts?
 
The big problem with most near-field monitors is that they usually have a steep "learning curve". You hafta learn where all the peaks and dips are and how they alter what you're hearing. Subs actually compound the problem.
 
I can't give you any pointers for which ones to get, but I can offer an opinion on what not to get. I have a pair of Event ALP5's and love them for their detail. However, the 5" driver leaves you wanting in the low end. So, I switch back and forth between them and bookshelf speakers with a sub.

My advice is to get monitors with a larger driver and better bass response. And also, be sure to acoustically treat your room so you get the best response from whatever monitors you purchase. It's important.
 
Alexrkstr said:
Thanks but the hr824 1) put me out of my budget and 2) are too much for amateur purposes...
Click to expand...

Yes...but if you want to fulfill all of your other requirements:

Alexrkstr said:
Essentially I am looking for:
- FLATNESS above all...
- Flexibility in adjusting to the room (I live in an apartment)
- No distortion when cranked
- Same detail at high AND low levels
Click to expand...


...then you need to UP your budget a bit. ;)

I love my Mackie HR824 monitors and they certainly are FLAT.
The only thing with them is that IMO, you don't want to use them in a very small room, as they can fill out the room easy...but on the other side, you don't need a Sub with them.
The smaller HR624 may work better for a real small room, but they will not go down as low as the 824 as easily.

Here's the thing...armature or not, your monitors are the main piece of gear you HAVE TO trust.
If you have iffy monitors...then how do you know what you are listening to?
How do you know if it's the mic...or the pre...or the amp....or the monitors that suck?
You have to have good monitors and any level...and I know some guys will draw the line at the Mackie 824 as cheapest "good monitors" that are out there....and anything below, is going to compromise your sound in some way.

So...think about that is you want to meet your criteria:

Alexrkstr said:
Essentially I am looking for:
- FLATNESS above all...
- Flexibility in adjusting to the room (I live in an apartment)
- No distortion when cranked
- Same detail at high AND low levels
Click to expand...

:D


PS

Not to pick on you...but I see it a lot on forums...and I always want to point that out to folks. :)
The proper word is advice...when you ask for it or give it...and advise is what you do when you give advice.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
The big problem with most near-field monitors is that they usually have a steep "learning curve". You hafta learn where all the peaks and dips are and how they alter what you're hearing. Subs actually compound the problem.
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I coldn't agree more. Stay away from subs until you get a better understanding of your room. This said, I'd also buy room treatment before a sub. Finally, I've had KRK Rockit 8s, MAudio BX8s, and EMU PM5s. The PM5s are the flattest in my room, the MAudios were next in flatness but had more low end (which was nice, but a sizzly top end) and the KRKs were simply boomy in my room. For some reason, I couldn't correct the KRKs with a parametric, so I'm now in the market for something similar. I think I've narrowed it down to the Yamaha HS80Ms and the JBL 4328s. I just have to listen to them now.

Good luck on your search, but I'd suggest a 7" woofer and no sub if that helps.
 
xyrium said:
I couldn't agree more. Stay away from subs until you get a better understanding of your room. This said, I'd also buy room treatment before a sub. Finally, I've had KRK Rockit 8s, MAudio BX8s, and EMU PM5s. The PM5s are the flattest in my room, the MAudios were next in flatness but had more low end (which was nice, but a sizzly top end) and the KRKs were simply boomy in my room. For some reason, I couldn't correct the KRKs with a parametric, so I'm now in the market for something similar. I think I've narrowed it down to the Yamaha HS80Ms and the JBL 4328s. I just have to listen to them now.

Good luck on your search, but I'd suggest a 7" woofer and no sub if that helps.
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That's a problem too, because an important part of the voice range is also being reproduced by the woofer, and you get increased Doppler and inter-modulation distortion. It's due to the high crossover point typical in two-way systems.

As you go higher in frequency, peaks, dips, and dispersion anomalies start appearing from about 300 Hz up. And there's Edge Diffraction distortion in most boxes at mid and higher frequencies.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
That's a problem too, because an important part of the voice range is also being reproduced by the woofer, and you get increased Doppler and inter-modulation distortion. It's due to the high crossover point typical in two-way systems.

As you go higher in frequency, peaks, dips, and dispersion anomalies start appearing from about 300 Hz up. And there's Edge Diffraction distortion in most boxes at mid and higher frequencies.
Click to expand...

So what do you recommend? 6 - 7 - or 8 inch woofers?
 
UPDATE: I decided to go with some Yamaha NS-10Ms I found on Craigslist. Now I need to buy an amp and replace a tweeter to be ready to mix...
 
I've been using the same set of NS-10M's I bought new in 1985 or so, right when they came out. They were the "home" version which has grilles I don't use and the tweeters are slightly different (they have a felt ring).

At one point one of the tweeters blew so I replaced both of them with the tweeters in the studio versions.

It took me awhile to get used to them although I always liked them.

The problem for the first 7 - 8 years was that since they don't have much bass, I was always mixing bass heavy.

What solved this for me was getting my sub worked out and experimenting with comparing my mixes; getting them to sound like recordings I liked.

Basically, I get the bass pumping on a factory recorded CD I like and leave it there. Learning to tweak my Finalizer was a big one for me too.

For an amp, and I love this thing, I use a tube kit one that I made called a K-12M which is only 8W per channel, but I run it maybe 1/3 of the way and it sounds super sweet with my NS-10M's. It was $150 at the time, I think it's $200 now, but the good thing is that it's a forever amp that I'll always be able to fix. Real quiet and totally a surprise that it's as good as it is.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
That's a problem too, because an important part of the voice range is also being reproduced by the woofer, and you get increased Doppler and inter-modulation distortion. It's due to the high crossover point typical in two-way systems.

As you go higher in frequency, peaks, dips, and dispersion anomalies start appearing from about 300 Hz up. And there's Edge Diffraction distortion in most boxes at mid and higher frequencies.
Click to expand...

I would agree that the woofer is required to play rather high in most situations, but doesn't most vocal performance start at 80Hz and end before the average xover point. It's usually rather safe to expect the critical vocal range to be handled well by a two way (assuming xover points average 2k). Many designers put most of the harmonics out of the region of the crossover point, and nulls.

I understand your following points, but for the purpose of this thread, I think we're getting in too deep (for me as well! :)), unless you think it's easier for him to buy a full sub/sat system in his price range and integrate better than a common two way for the same price. In which case, I certainly concede, because I could never do it myself, given the train wreck (yet treated) of a room I have. :)
 
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Alexrkstr said:
UPDATE: I decided to go with some Yamaha NS-10Ms I found on Craigslist. Now I need to buy an amp and replace a tweeter to be ready to mix...
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Nice find! Be careful installing non-OEM (original) tweeters if that's what you choose to do. Some xovers are designed to manage the OEM stuff ideally, and may not work as well with other drop in (physically) replacements. You may want to consider replacing the pair of tweets for uniformity. I like that suggestion of a tube amp. Don't shy away from them due to the low power rating, you can't rate tubes like solid state/transistors. Good luck though, and happy mixing!

Edit: Yikes, are these prices common? http://www.allproelectronics.com/Yamaha-NS10M-Parts-s/17.htm
 
dintymoore said:
Snip....For an amp, and I love this thing, I use a tube kit one that I made called a K-12M which is only 8W per channel, but I run it maybe 1/3 of the way and it sounds super sweet with my NS-10M's. It was $150 at the time, I think it's $200 now, but the good thing is that it's a forever amp that I'll always be able to fix. Real quiet and totally a surprise that it's as good as it is.
Click to expand...

Dinty, have you seen this?
http://www.siteswithstyle.com/VoltSecond/K-12M_AMP/K-12M_Push_Pull.html
 
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