need help with putting together a bedroom studio

[tha don]

hi people,
this my first post...

i am going to record in a double bedroom, new build house with double glazing,

i have got egg shaped acoustic foam, but havnt put on walls yet as not really sure where they should be placed, ive got yamaha ns-10m monitors, mackie hui mixer, pc with protools and mbox 2, mic stand pop shield, samson Q mic, samson amplifier for yamahas, plug - ins etc

im going to buy some new monitors to mix on im thinking about the behringer truth monitors?
gonna get a new condensor vocal mic like the rode maybe?
also gonna get the reflection filter portable booth
and some new studio headphones

my question is will it be alright to record rap vocals and miox & master tracks in the same room as i will be gettting the se reflextion filter?

and where should i p[osition the acoustic foam i have already got?

i have done a paint picture as a rough guide for you
help appreciated, thanx
tha don

 

[tha don]

heres the pic 4 ya

 

[Myriad_Rocker]

Awesome drawing.

Ever tried using SketchUp?

On another note, why did you mention double glazing? Don't all windows have a double glazing? Or are you in a glass house? If so, don't get in rock fights.

Place the foam in a fire. That'll take care of that. Keep away from the fumes. Then go get some OC 703 and wood and build some real treatment.

Next, nix the idea of getting the Behringer monitors. Get something else.

 

[tha don]

haha thought u might like the drawing

anyway how come ditch the acoustic foam? i thought that was the proper way to go like most recording studios?

and will that be alright doing vocals with the reflextion filter in the same room??

thanx

 

[benherron.rrr]

On another note, why did you mention double glazing? Don't all windows have a double glazing? Or are you in a glass house? If so, don't get in rock fights.

.

My house doesn't have double glazing, I got a big plank of wood and covered it in foam so i can slot it in the window to stop outside noise, it ain't great but its better.

haha thought u might like the drawing

anyway how come ditch the acoustic foam? i thought that was the proper way to go like most recording studios?

and will that be alright doing vocals with the reflextion filter in the same room??

thanx

People here don't like acoustic foam, they say that it has no effect and it's popularity is down to marketing hype. I know a couple of studios that have got good results from using foam diffusers and Bass traps. All in all it isn't the best thing in the world and what people will suggest to you about making your own will grant you more efficiant results. . . but foam won't hurt.

The reflexion filter will be fine being in the same room, I have one and it helps to keep the sound nice and sharp, although it isn't always good to use.

 

[Myriad_Rocker]

My house doesn't have double glazing, I got a big plank of wood and covered it in foam so i can slot it in the window to stop outside noise, it ain't great but its better.

All the windows in my house have two sheets of glass (glazing)...which doesn't really matter when it comes to sound.

My mentioning of burning the foam was more of a joke but, really, once you get proper acoustic treatment (which you need), the foam will become relatively pointless. All it does is tame high frequencies. And the barn burner of a small room (bedroom) is bass. The foam will do NOTHING for bass. So when you get some proper bass trapping going on and some treatment at your first reflection points and above your mix position, your foam will be of little more use than as decoration.

And the reflextion filter or whatever it's called is fine in the same room. Preferred, even, in your scenario.

 

[benherron.rrr]

All the windows in my house have two sheets of glass (glazing)...which doesn't really matter when it comes to sound.

My mentioning of burning the foam was more of a joke but, really, once you get proper acoustic treatment (which you need), the foam will become relatively pointless. All it does is tame high frequencies. And the barn burner of a small room (bedroom) is bass. The foam will do NOTHING for bass. So when you get some proper bass trapping going on and some treatment at your first reflection points and above your mix position, your foam will be of little more use than as decoration.

And the reflextion filter or whatever it's called is fine in the same room. Preferred, even, in your scenario.

If you saw the state of my old windows, you'd think your double glazing was like a pure vacuum . I suppose foam is an OK work around, in all honesty I would love to completely re build my room and get it designed by an acoustic specialist, but its not gunna be possible. if you know where I'm throwing my stones?

I took the road where that new shinny microphone was more appealing to me than treating my room, now I've got a little more. . . developed. I wish I spent the time and money on doing what I could at the time, now I have no money and a bad room. To the op. . . do it right and do it well, the effort pays of in the gallon

 

[witzendoz]

On another note, why did you mention double glazing? Don't all windows have a double glazing?

No they don't, very few homes where I live have double glazing, unfortunately. Double glazing helps heaps at keeping noise in / out.

Acoustic foam only attacks the high frequencies, I don't mind a small amount of acoustic foam around the place to control high end reflections, but the real acoustic control comes from bass traps, broadband absorbers and defusers, all of which can be made up pretty cheaply with a bit of woodwork. There are a thousand threads on this forum explaining and a thousand site on the net with instructions.

Cheers
Alan.

P.S. I should have said, have a look at the pics of my studio on my web site, the only foam is on the studio door (due to it being a hard surface in the corner) and a small strip around the wall in the drum area to control the cymbal splash as I found the area to be a bit too live when we finished building.

 

[Myriad_Rocker]

No they don't, very few homes where I live have double glazing, unfortunately. Double glazing helps heaps at keeping noise in / out.

Like I said, my house windows do have double glazing. I haven't seen many houses these days that don't unless the house is older. But, I live in the states and things are different in different areas of the world. I'm just saying my house has double glazing. And to your point about double glazing helping heaps at keeping noise out...yeah, to a certain extent it does. But we're talking standard house windows here. Not angled 3/4" glass panes. So my extra glazing in a standard house window probably does somewhere in the neighborhood of jack squat to keep the noise out.

Anyway...OP, invest in decently treating your room and it'll pay off in the long term. Forget the Behringer monitors. You have some decent ones already and, in my opinion, the Behringer monitors would be a downgrade. You can respectably treat your room a bit for not a lot of coin.

 

[witzendoz]

One of the reasons it's nice to have a location next to the name is so you do have some idea what is standard in that particular persons area.

Cold places often have double glazing, as it very seldom gets down to freezing where I live houses don't have it. I would like to have it to keep the hot summer out and some noise but it's not standard.

Also there is different quality of double glazing, I was in Germany January and the apartment had double glazing with very good quality windows / seals, almost no outside noise got in, so they would be a good start as what can't get in can't get out.

On the other hand I was in India Last December and what was outside was inside due to the paper thin glass and big gaps around the window frame.

Alan

 

[tha don]

hi people, im back and glad that your all replying, appreciate the help from you

cool so youve answered some questions for me, now my questions are

1. anybody suggest good vocal condensor mic for hip hop vocals?

2. i no u said my yamahas are good but id like a pair of montiors to mix on and listen to, then listen on yamahas for the final masterpace as ive heard thats wat theyre used more for?? if im right in thinking that

3. good headphones for the rapping and listening to mix?

4. im gonna buy bass traps for corners, but where do i [place my egg shape foam? haha

thanx for help people, its appreciated
tha don

 

[Myriad_Rocker]

1. anybody suggest good vocal condensor mic for hip hop vocals?

The Shure SM7B is a GREAT mic for any vocal. The best part? It's very affordable. Countless people have used it to record #1 hits. Michael Jackson being one. It's a dynamic mic but don't let that deter you. LDC, SDC, dynamic...it doesn't matter. If you're bent on an LDC, check out the Audio Technica AT4040, AT4050, or AT4060. All of those are killer mics. And then there's the Shure KSM27 or the KSM32. All of those are great mics as well.

2. i no u said my yamahas are good but id like a pair of montiors to mix on and listen to, then listen on yamahas for the final masterpace as ive heard thats wat theyre used more for?? if im right in thinking that

In the end, it's your choice. Just shoot higher than Behringer. And if you don't have enough, save up. At least get yourself some decent Mackie's. You'll probably really like how those sound. The HR824's that they used to sell can be had on eBay. Those are a pretty good monitor.

3. good headphones for the rapping and listening to mix?

There are lots of decent headphones out there. I wouldn't mix on them but for listening back, micro-analysis, and recording vox, you can't go wrong with Beyerdynamics. Shure and AKG make some good ones, too.

4. im gonna buy bass traps for corners, but where do i [place my egg shape foam?

Is the egg shape foam actual acoustic foam or just plain foam? Meaning...is it Auralex? If not, it's likely not acoustic foam. Non-acoustic foam is made differently and has no impact on acoustics. It's also a fire hazard. However, if it is acoustic foam, I'd put it on the wall behind your speakers and arrange it nicely. It'll tame some high frequencies bouncing off that wall. Then if you have more, put some at your first reflection points. I'd opt for some OC703 traps at the first reflection points, though. You can build two of those yourself for around $50, I bet. Maybe less. Acoustic Panels by ATS Acoustics sells OC703, etc. It's under the DIY section. You can also buy their already made panels. The 4" panels will function fine as your bass traps. The 2" ones will be for your high, mid, mid-low, etc. Broadband absorbers is what they're called.



Alright, that's enough out of me. Good luck.

 

[tha don]

hi myriad, luving the help, thanx for this

now ive ebayed everything you said, and im gonna get one of the audio technica mics, 40, 50 and 60, im guessing the 60 be the best one to buy???

i see what u mean about the mackie monitors, apparently there real good ones on reviews, now theres the originals and the mk 2's wich i can buy brand new, or am i better buying the originals 2nd hand?

headphones im not sure what to get, i suppose if i spend £100 on some Beyerdynamics there gonna be good anyway

and that site that sells acoustic treatment seems a good site, my foam was bought off ebay stating its acoustics foam, its not auralex but it is acoustic foam though, just a cheaper brand, so not sure what to do here

thanks for helping me, im itching to buy this new equipment
tha don

 

[tha don]

thats the exact foam i got.

 

[RAMI]

View attachment 66103

thats the exact foam i got.

You've already asked the question 10 different ways and got about 10 different answers saying the same thing. Foam is not good for acoustic treatment. Period. As has been mentioned already, all it does is kill your highs. 99% of the problem in 99% of rooms is bass, especially in bed rooms. So, by killing your highs with foam, you're now making bass 100% of your problem. I know it's not what you want to hear and you'll probably still say that you think it will work...but it won't.

Throw it out. Or wait until you get proper bass traps and treatment and you can probably put a few pieces of foam here and there for whatever reason you want to convince your self you need it.

 

[Myriad_Rocker]

now ive ebayed everything you said, and im gonna get one of the audio technica mics, 40, 50 and 60, im guessing the 60 be the best one to buy???

I don't have the AT4060 so I can't make that call. I had the AT4047 at one point and it was a really great mic. I traded it for something I needed, but I can't remember what it was. The AT4060, if you can afford it, is a damn good choice.

now theres the originals and the mk 2's wich i can buy brand new, or am i better buying the originals 2nd hand?

Save yourself some bucks and get the originals. They're in a number of nice studios. I don't know anything about the MK2's.

headphones im not sure what to get, i suppose if i spend £100 on some Beyerdynamics there gonna be good anyway

That's for sure. Those Beyerdynamics are great. But any decent set of closed headphones will be good.

and that site that sells acoustic treatment seems a good site

I'm guessing you're in the UK since you said £100 on the headphones. If so, that site is no good for you. The company is in the States. I'd find somewhere similar or just search around for some OC703 that you can order. Get some wood and frame them up (super easy) and cover in burlap, which can be bought at any decent fabric store.

my foam was bought off ebay stating its acoustics foam, its not auralex but it is acoustic foam though, just a cheaper brand, so not sure what to do here

Do you have a link to the actual listing for it? It's been my experience from reading about that stuff that it's not legitimate acoustic foam.

 

[tha don]

hi myriad, this is the link for the foam, exact stuff i bought from the exact same supplier
Acoustic Treatment FAT Single 30" Tiles Studio Foam | eBay UK


thanks again for all the help
tha don

 

[Myriad_Rocker]

hi myriad, this is the link for the foam, exact stuff i bought from the exact same supplier
Acoustic Treatment FAT Single 30" Tiles Studio Foam | eBay UK

Well, it's open cell so it's at least legit. BUT, this line is...well, bullshit. "The tiles are convoluted or 'egg box' profile which offers a greater surface area over flat tiles which enables them to ‘catch’ sound waves more easily and effectively." I think what they're TRYING to say there is that it's kind of diffusive. But really, it's not.

Anyway, Rami is right. Foam is only going to absorb high end. And your room is going to need LOTS of bass trapping.