Need help selecting a mixer for a Pro Tools Digi 001

[sevendustweb]

Hello...

I am very new at this, so please bear with me.

I am in the process of building a computer with a Pro Tools Digi 001 unit. My band wants to use an outboard mixer with this rig. I have been told to get a mixer with "ADAT/Optical multi pre's", but I have no clue what the hell they are referring to.

I looked around at some mixers, but to no avail. I can't afford a Mackie Onyx. I am looking at an Alesis Multimix 12 USB, but again, I have no idea. Do I even need a mixer with a computer interface, or can I go with a regular mixer?

PLEASE!!! Any help would be greatly appreciated. This is stressing me out as I have no clue what the hell is going on with this.

 

[bcains]

Hello...

I am very new at this, so please bear with me.

I am in the process of building a computer with a Pro Tools Digi 001 unit. My band wants to use an outboard mixer with this rig. I have been told to get a mixer with "ADAT/Optical multi pre's", but I have no clue what the hell they are referring to.

I looked around at some mixers, but to no avail. I can't afford a Mackie Onyx. I am looking at an Alesis Multimix 12 USB, but again, I have no idea. Do I even need a mixer with a computer interface, or can I go with a regular mixer?

PLEASE!!! Any help would be greatly appreciated. This is stressing me out as I have no clue what the hell is going on with this.

Questions:
Have many channels do you need?
Whats your budget?

Unless you are determinded on getting a mixer, what about external pres?

 

[sevendustweb]

How many channels...

I need around 6 - 8 channels. The band likes the idea of a mixer because a.) it allows them to be more hands on; and b.) they can use the mixer for live shows.

The budget if we go with a Pro Tools Digi 001 is: $250 - $350

If we skip Pro Tools and go with ACID/Cubase, the budget will be: $350 - $450.

 

[sdelsolray]

Soundcraft M8, because it's nice and it has direct outs.

 

[bcains]

There are many options:
Yamaha MG124FX 12-Channel Mixer $267
Yamaha MG124 12-Channel Mixer $200
Yamaha MG102 10-Channel, 4-Bus Mixer $99

Spirit Soundcraft E12 12-Channel E Series Mixer $440
Spirit Soundcraft E8 10-Channel E Series Mixer $350
Spirit Soundcraft E6 8-Channel E Series Mixer $320
The soundcraft M8s' are about $640

Mackie 1402-VLZ Pro $299
Mackie 1202-VLZ Pro $399

 

[reshp1]

There are many options:
Yamaha MG124FX 12-Channel Mixer $267
Yamaha MG124 12-Channel Mixer $200
Yamaha MG102 10-Channel, 4-Bus Mixer $99

Spirit Soundcraft E12 12-Channel E Series Mixer $440
Spirit Soundcraft E8 10-Channel E Series Mixer $350
Spirit Soundcraft E6 8-Channel E Series Mixer $320
The soundcraft M8s' are about $640

Mackie 1402-VLZ Pro $299
Mackie 1202-VLZ Pro $399

If they are looking to bring the mixer outputs into protools via the ADAT/Lightpipe/Optical input on the 001, you'll still need an A/D convertor. The Behringer ADA8000 is a cheap option.

 

[reshp1]

The budget if we go with a Pro Tools Digi 001 is: $250 - $350

If we skip Pro Tools and go with ACID/Cubase, the budget will be: $350 - $450.

If you haven't bought the 001 yet, are you aware that it's no longer supported by Digidesign? May or may not be an issue depending on if you're interested in software upgrades and what not.

 

[sevendustweb]

Help with my configuration...

Which comes to the next question.

The band was working with a Tascam 2488 (which I told them was shitty considering for the price we could move them up to computer based music editing).

I haven't bought anything yet. We can either go the Pro Tools route or the ACID/Cubase route. Remember, the band has limited to no experience on computer based recording.

I will have around $650 - $700 to spend on outboard gear/software once the computer is built.

Any help on a configuration would be awesome. I know that the Digi 001 is no longer supported by Pro Tools (which stops us from getting software upgrades). On the other hand, Pro Tools is the "industry standard."

Any ideas?

 

[NeoMagick]

I know Pro Tools is the 'standard' and whatnot, but I have to be frank - I've yet to see anyone do anything on Pro Tools that you can't do with DigiPerformer or Cubase. (I'm gonna get bashed for this: ) While I certainly don't advocate illegal piracy, do be aware that you can get versions of software out there for free, so if you try it out, decide you like it, you then go buy it - a good number of companies won't take back opened software, so if you use it and decide you hate it, you're stuck.

Then we get into the portability. ProTools works only with pro tools hardware. Cubase et cetera work with anything Windows or the MacOS interfaces with. You can spend a couple hundred on an Audiophile 24/96 (which I have, and handles things incredibly well), or spend a bit more on something like the Firepod, or the MOTU 828mkII (which I also have, and can't advocate enough).

Don't limit yourself to something just because it's 'industry standard', or 'what the pros use', especially if you're just starting out. If everybody used 'what the pros use' when they first started, the world would be overrun with these in people's basement studios. Also, you can take whatever you record on your computer with whatever proram you end up with, and import it into a studio's system for a final mixdown. I'm recording using Cubase and my MOTU, and I can take my raw data over to the ProTools studio down the road for mixing through their ever so pretty SSL setup... In the digital day and age, nothing is permanent, and nothing has to stay put.

You'll help yourself out a lot if you sit down and map out what you need - how many channels do you need to record at once? Can you submix them? (4 mics on your drums mixed down to a mono channel, so your recording interface only needs one for your drums, etc)? If so, how many mics do you need, and how many mics do you *have*? How many tracks do you want to play with in your recording system - lighter versions of Cubase give you less channels, but cost much much less, so if you don't need 256 tracks, you don't need to pay $800 for your DAW software.. and on and on it goes.

One thing I can promise you is that it's never as simple as it is on paper. My biggest suggestion is to work with what you have though. Buy some kit, and make something work with it. It's far too easy to fall into the gear trap... the "I've got (x) but I can't do with it, so I need to buy (a), (b), (c), (C.5), (d), and (e), to make it work" mentality.

If you put up exactly what you want to record - how many tracks in your console, how many mics/lines you want from an instrument, what kind of effects you have/want, etc, you'll find suggestions are much easier to make.

Best of luck to you though. Will be very interested to hear the results.

 

[sevendustweb]

What I need out of this setup...

how many channels do you need to record at once?

A minimum of four (4) channels would be needed for the drums with a maximum of eight (8) channels.

The tracking would be done exactly like I have seen it done in the studio (i.e: Track the drums first, then the bass, then guitars, then vocals).

Can you submix them? (4 mics on your drums mixed down to a mono channel, so your recording interface only needs one for your drums, etc)?

This is an interesting question. I guess we could submix the drums, but I would like to avoid it if at all possible. I want the drummer to be able to go into the DAW software and see his snare, toms, kick, and cymbals as different tracks so he has maximum options in terms of "tweaking" his sound. If we do a submix, I don't think that will be possible.

If so, how many mics do you need, and how many mics do you *have*?

Assuming the tracking is done like above, the most mics we will need at any given time will be eight (8). If we get this rig, we will be able to borrow mics as needed.

How many tracks do you want to play with in your recording system - lighter versions of Cubase give you less channels, but cost much much less, so if you don't need 256 tracks, you don't need to pay $800 for your DAW software.. and on and on it goes.

Assuming we record the maximum number of tracks for the drums, with every instrument/vocalist on board, we would need to be able to work with a maximum of 20 - 25 tracks at one time.

what kind of effects you have/want, etc, you'll find suggestions are much easier to make.

In terms of effects, I am trying to give the band the best bang for the buck. Remember, they had already purchased a Tascam 2488 until I convinced them that returning the unit in exchange for a Computer DAW was the way to go.

While I don't need the craziest effects, my ass is on the line, so I have to give them something that will kick the shit out of the Tascam 2488. I know it won't be hard to do... it's just putting it all together.

At a minimum, I need the following: Vocal Compressor, De-esser, Vocal Exciter, Noise Gate, Distortion, Delay, Flanger, Phaser, Chorus, Pitch Shifter, Tremolo, Vibrato, Wah Effect.

If I can find software that will give us more than this, bring it on.

-----------------------------

My biggest problem is understanding the components needed. If I get a Pro Tools Digi 001, from what I understand, I can run my outboard mixer directly into the back of the rack unit without the need for a digital converter (please correct me if I am wrong).

i.e: Instruments/Vocals --> Mixer Inputs --> Mixer Outputs --> Digi 001

If I go with Cubase or ACID, I might as well suck it up and go for an outboard mixer w/ USB or Firewire capabilities as they have the equivilant of an internal digital converter, thus bypassing the need for anything other than the software and the mixer.

i.e: Instruments/Vocals -->Mixer Inputs --> Mixer Outputs --> Computer

Again, thanks for all of your help. I will keep you updated as the process unfolds.

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

've yet to see anyone do anything on Pro Tools that you can't do with DigiPerformer or Cubase. (I'm gonna get bashed for this: )

No you're not- its true. I use Pro Tools everyday- LE and TDM systems and you have to be blind to not see that PT LE doesn't have as robust a feature set as Cubase SX and DP.

-Chris

 

[reshp1]

At a minimum, I need the following: Vocal Compressor, De-esser, Vocal Exciter, Noise Gate, Distortion, Delay, Flanger, Phaser, Chorus, Pitch Shifter, Tremolo, Vibrato, Wah Effect.

If I can find software that will give us more than this, bring it on.

Protools:
Compressor, De-esser, Noise Gate, Distortion (bundled Amplitube), Delay, Chorus (Off-line processing only), pitch shift (off-line processing, but isn't like auto that auto corrects, only shifts entire selection by specified amount), and Wah (also via Amplitube)

Free plugs:
Nomad factory: Flanger, Phaser, Tremelo.

My biggest problem is understanding the components needed. If I get a Pro Tools Digi 001, from what I understand, I can run my outboard mixer directly into the back of the rack unit without the need for a digital converter (please correct me if I am wrong).

i.e: Instruments/Vocals --> Mixer Inputs --> Mixer Outputs --> Digi 001

.

Sorry if my previous post was confusing. Yes you can can plug the mixer outs into the Line-In's of your 001. You mentioned you wanted a ADAT/optical out from the mixer, so I thought you were trying to get a mixer that did the A/D conversion so you could take advantage of the extra 8 channels of the 001 via it's ADAT lightpipe input.

 

[sevendustweb]

Sorry if my previous post was confusing. Yes you can can plug the mixer outs into the Line-In's of your 001. You mentioned you wanted a ADAT/optical out from the mixer, so I thought you were trying to get a mixer that did the A/D conversion so you could take advantage of the extra 8 channels of the 001 via it's ADAT lightpipe input.

I mentioned that because I had heard that having ADAT/Optical out from the mixer makes for a kick ass Pro Tools rig. However, since the most tracks I will need to record simultaneously is 8 at a time, I don't need the ADAT/Optical because I could go straight through the Digi 001.

My hardest part is deciding between Sonar, Cubase, and Pro Tools. I will admit... Pro Tools has some damn good marketing, and is the industry standard, but when it comes down to it, I don't know if I want my "balls in a sling" knowing I can't upgrade the software past 6.4.

I know that with Sonar or Cubase, if I get a USB or Firewire mixer, I should be set, and when its time for a software upgrade, I can do so without the need for a ton of other equipment.

Anyone know of some web sites that compare the various DAWs?

 

[jpw23]

look at some cakewalk software and the alesis multimix mixers...........We have protools le and a digi 002 with an old adat lightpiped and I like guitar tracks pro 3 better( i'll take a beating for that) We also run logic, hard to use but, it does have its place but, once again I like the cakewalk stuff.....been using their products back when they were twelve tone systems!
BTW....we use and old carvin 24 channel mixer....I would not trade it for anything

 

[bcains]

Well i run the digi 001 w/ PTLE 6.4 on Panther and its ideal for the home/project studio. With the digi you are getting 2 pre amps/ interface / software and plugins all in one. I may be a biased because i use this and havent tried many others but i havent needed to.

Just another question are you PC based or Mac?

Also if you want an 24/8 bus mixer, its gonna be almost triple that amount.
Unless you found a used one on ebay or in your local trading post.