need help choosing soundcard.....

  • Thread starter Thread starter wykid
  • Start date Start date
W

wykid

New member
i have ...

akai mpc3000 with 8 outputs
mo'phatt sound module
roland sv-1010
yamaha motif rack
microphone
and 5 signal processors...

i want to multitrack on my pc...but i want to mix externally.... help!! plz...im stumped...
 
Depends on the number of ins and outs you want.
M-audio cards are reliable and widely used amongst the members here. I had an audiophile for about a year and it always worked flawlessly.
 
16 in /out minimum..... i mean should i go as high as the motu 24 i/o....or should i get terratec multitrack pci cards...??...or would that even work? (the 2 pci's) (each has 8 in/out)??
 
You could use a 24 track MOTU, or multiple Delta 1010's (you can use up to 4 at a time). I'm not sure about the Terratec units as far a using more than one at a time, but M-audio seems to do it well. A cheaper alternative would be something like the Delta 410. Each card has 4 inputs and 10 outputs. From your description, I think you are looking for a bunch of simultanious outputs for mixing. A pair of Delta 410s would give you 8-in and 20-out.

Is this sounding like an M Audio ad? There are other cards out there, although personally, I think the Terratec cards are in the same catagory as the Soundblaster cards (read: not well suited for recording). The Delta cards seem to have the largest following. Far be it for me to jump off the bridge with everyone else, but they must be doing something right.
 
Hawking, where did you get your information that terratec cards are crap? Everything I have read, heard and seen (my friend has an EWX24/96) suggests that they are as good (or bad) as M-Audio. I'd like to know if there are issues.
2 Delta 410s will only give you 4 analog ins not 8.

Wykid, if you are thinking about running multiple Delta 1010s on Windows XP you should check out this thread titled M-AUDIO'S DECEITFUL ADVERTISING. People have had nightmares with multiple 1010s.
http://sound-on-sound2.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=tpc&s=215094572&f=351097254&m=4693018185&p=1
Probably the longest running thread at the SOS forums (where M-Audio drivers are now despised).

RME probably have the best reputation for their soundcards. Checkout their hammerfall / digiface / mulitface cards for lots of i/o. Echo also have a reasonably good reputation. A layla gives you 8 analog inputs and an ADAT i/o for 8 more (with the appropriate external converters). As far as I am aware only RME and Echo drivers avoid kmixer resampling in XP when using mme/wave drivers.

MOTU has been mentioned (though some claim that they are more stable on macs than PCs ???). Aardvark have had driver issues given the many threads at audioforums.com (hopefully resolved by now but it has hurt their reputation).

RME is the best option for that many i/o (if you are serious and can afford it).
 
Last edited:
Hawking,

It pays to do research before you shoot yourself in the foot. :)

Check this link: M Audio Audiophile 2496 compared with Terratec EWX24/96.

Permit me to quote from the second last paragraph in the review:

Those with optical digital sockets on their outboard gear will find the EWX more suitable, while the Audiophile seems a more obvious choice to those with phono digital I/O. It ought to be fairly easy to solder up a suitable cable and phono socket to the 2-pin connector on the EWX as well, but even with this addition you still have to choose between optical, co-axial, or CD-ROM using hardware jumpers before installing the card. This is a shame, since the EWX would win hands down if the digital input format were software-switched.

--
BluesMeister
 
"2 Delta 410s will only give you 4 analog ins not 8. "

2 Delta 410s = 4 inputs and 10 outputs X 2 = 8 inputs and 20 outputs.

I'm not saying Terratec is crap, I haven't heard anything recorded on one that sounded bad (based solely on card performance, that is). But I've heard some amazing stuff done on soundblaster cards also.

The EWX2496 is a 2 in 2 out card, which means wykid will need to find a motherboard with at least 8 PCI slots (!) to get his minimum required 16 inputs and 16 outputs. As for sound quality, I don't doubt its published specs, or my own ears. It sounds just fine. But there's also no sign of balanced inputs or outputs.

I suppose this comes down to budget. I agree the RME is a better choice than either M-Audio or Terratec, if the budget has enough room in it.

How about another quote from that same review...

"Overall, Terratec's EWX 24/96 is a very capable soundcard with very similar high audio quality to the Audiophile (see box), and a bargain price tag in the UK. However, I'm not happy with Terratec's packaging and web site information, which misleadingly suggests that both CD-ROM and Toslink inputs can be used together. Bundling Gigasampler LE has also misled some musicians into thinking that they can run this alongside a MIDI + Audio sequencer, which isn't the case — the current drivers can only run one or the other. Even in the FAQ on the installation CD–ROM it maintains that both applications can be run at the same time, but then states "the EWX 24/96 physical I/O can only be used by one software application at the same time, in this case Gigasampler." Strangely, GigaStudio 160 didn't recognise the EWX drivers as GSIF-compatible, although I got perfectly satisfactory performance when running it. Finally, I must mention that despite further misleading comments about 24-bit/96kHz ASIO support in the EWX manual, this isn't available from the bundled MicroLogic Fun package"
 
Hawking said:
"2 Delta 410s will only give you 4 analog ins not 8. "

2 Delta 410s = 4 inputs and 10 outputs X 2 = 8 inputs and 20 outputs.
Click to expand...

A delta 410 has 2 ANALOG inputs and 2 digital inputs. Therefore 2 delta 410s will give you 4 ANALOG ins which is what I said. If you want to count the digital inputs then you should make it clear they are digital and need external ADCs. The original poster was looking at 16 analog ins which would require 8 delta 410s. Please check the maudio website if you do not believe me.

I never recommended the EWS24/96 to wykid. I wanted to know why you wouldnt recommend Terratec cards in general because I have seen nothing to suggest that they are any less suitable for recording than M-Audio cards. Measurements of their soundcards (6fire, 24/96, 88) in sound on sound show that they perform as well as the audiophile or delta 66.

Did you read the thread on running multiple 1010s in XP and the issues people had? Wykid should be made aware of these issues when recommending he get two delta 1010s.
 
I did read the thread. I don't use XP so it's not an issue for me. 2000pro takes up a lot less room than XP and I'm not a big fan of all the bells and whistles anyway.

Does Terratec offer a card with 8 analog ins and 8 analog outs any more? I didn't see the EWS 88 MT listed on their site. 6 in and 6 out is the biggest one they offer now.

I think the MOTU 24I/O is the way to go if we're talking about a 1 card system. If we're talking 2 cards, then the options increase. There's the MOTU 896, the Delta 1010, Delta 1010LT, the Layla 24, The Direct Pro Q10, Edirol DA2496....I'm sure there's more that I'm missing.
 
Hawking,

It's not my intention to get into a bun fight with you :) But I'll address the points from the review:

However, I'm not happy with Terratec's packaging and web site information, which misleadingly suggests that both CD-ROM and Toslink inputs can be used together.

I have an EWX24/96. I don't think I was ever under the impression that the CD-ROM and Toslink could be used together. I'm sure I knew it was one or the other - not both. Certainly the manual is not very clear about this. It has been translated rather sloppily from German.

Bundling Gigasampler LE has also misled some musicians into thinking that they can run this alongside a MIDI + Audio sequencer, which isn't the case — the current drivers can only run one or the other. Even in the FAQ on the installation CD–ROM it maintains that both applications can be run at the same time, but then states "the EWX 24/96 physical I/O can only be used by one software application at the same time, in this case Gigasampler.

Now I did get caught with this and spent many unhappy hours fiddle-arsing aroung with GSLE until I eventually found out that LE is a crippled version. :(

You can run your sequencer - but only from within GigaSampler. You cannot record any audio because GSLE restricts you to two outputs only - and they are both taken up by GSLE. You cannot run your sequencer outside of GSLE because it maintains a stranglehold on your audio card's outputs.

This is a restriction due entirely to GigaSampler LE NOT the Terratec EWX24/96.

You can only run your sequencer seperately by uninstalling GSLE. That's precisely what I did. I love the Giga instruments - but they were of no earthly use to me if I can't record them.

Strangely, GigaStudio 160 didn't recognise the EWX drivers as GSIF-compatible, although I got perfectly satisfactory performance when running it.

When Martin Walker tested the Terratec, the GSIF drivers hadn't been released. They were released after I purchased my card, which I did based in part on Martin's review.

Finally, I must mention that despite further misleading comments about 24-bit/96kHz ASIO support in the EWX manual, this isn't available from the bundled MicroLogic Fun package

Again, that's sequencer-related, not Terratec. Since I don't use MicroLogic Fun, that's not an issue for me. I couldn't get on with MLF, so I stuck with CakeWalk Pro Audio 7 and then upgraded to HomeStudio 2002 last year.

I think the Terratec cards are in the same catagory as the Soundblaster cards (read: not well suited for recording).
Click to expand...


Are you still of this opinion? ;)

--
BluesMeister
 
Yes, I'm still of the same position. Perhaps my position needs a little clarification.

The purpose of this thread was (is) to get Wykid enough inputs/outputs (minimum 16 each) to mix externally. I still don't believe that the Terratec is up to the task, if only for the reason of lack of inputs/ouputs. If asked for more reasons, I would have to say - look at all of the other products Terratec produces. TV tuners, digital video converters, webcams, video cards, digital radio receivers, and "55 Watts RMS - 1100 Watts P.M.P.O. in quality MDF Cabinets " speaker systems. All of them are fine products, I'm sure. But they just aren't built with one purpose in mind. They are built to satisfy as many people as possible. It's good business sense to do this. But when it comes to audio hardware, why do you think there are so many different quitars, amplifiers, microphones, preamps, EQs, compressors, widgets, and doohickies? It's because each one has a specific purpose. Terratec, like Soundblaster is trying to be too many things. They're both a great sounding gaming cards, but I think they are both trying to jump on the 24/96 bandwagon and cash in on the market.

My comparison between Terratec and Soundblaster

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the Terratec cards are in the same catagory as the Soundblaster cards (read: not well suited for recording).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

comes from seeing many many more comparisons between these 2 than say an RME and a Terratec, or anything vs. Terratec. Reviewers tend to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. They ARE in the same group as determined by the majority of reviews. As for the review you quoted, bear in mind that they're comparing Terratec's flagship with Delta's 'bottom of the line'. I don't doubt that they are equal in performance. I still don't think the Terratec is a viable option for this application. If they still make the EWS88 (again, I didn't see it listed on the website) then the Delta 1010 would have some competition.
 
Hawking said:
The purpose of this thread was (is) to get Wykid enough inputs/outputs (minimum 16 each) to mix externally.
Click to expand...
That much is true, and I think I've been guilty of hijacking this thread. Please accept my apologies.

I disagree though that the EWX24/96 is Terratec's flagship, at the time of the review that was the EWS88MT. The Terratec DMX6 Fire has multi-inputs (it shares drivers and software control-panel with the EWX) and I believe there may now be a successor to the EWS88MT. Interested parties can perform their own search.

I still don't think the Terratec is a viable option for this application.
Click to expand...
So far as the EWX24/96 is concerned, that is quite correct.

--
BluesMeister
 
Bluesmeister, you are not hijacking a thread if you are correcting some inaccurate statements that had been posted.

Hawking, M-Audio make products like the revolution and sonica. They compete directly in the consumer market and are compared to soundblaster products in reviews. Does that make all M-Audio products unsuitable for recording? Is M-Audio trying to be too many things?

You made your comment about Terratec being unsuitable for recording with no qualifications or explanations in your original post. If you said their consumer soundcards were inappropriate noone would disagree with you but you didnt. You said all terratec cards were not suited to recording which is not true. You continue to say Terratec is not a viable option for wykid and that is not true either. Terratec do sell the EWS88 MT, as well as the new Phase 88 rack. Both are potentially suitable for wykids needs. Details are available on the Terratec website (look in the Terratec Producer section).

I dont want to get involved in an argument and I apologize if I appear overly confrontational or argumentative. I (and you) only want wykid to get good, accurate advice.
 
Last edited:
Your absolutly right alfalfa. My comment about Terratec was perhaps to broad. I was looking for an 8 in 8 out Terratec card but didn't find one. Thank you for pointing out the Phase 88.

Bluebear, apologies are not necessary.

As for wykid, heres a few links that might be helpful in your search for an appropriate soundcard for your needs. They appear in no particular order. If anyone else would like to chime in here and mention one that I have missed, please do.

Terratec
http://audioen.terratec.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=161&menu=215

M Audio
http://www.midiman.net/products/m-audio/delt1010.php

RME
http://www.rme-audio.de/english/hdsp/multifa.htm

Echo Audio
http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/Layla24/index.php

Motu
http://www.motu.com/

Edirol
http://www.edirol.com/products/info/da2496.html

Aardvark
http://www.aardvarkaudio.com/aasd-v1/products/q10-main.html

Frontier
http://www.frontierdesign.com/prevIndex.htm

These are all 8 in 8 out (analog) rack mount units. I believe the MOTU line is the only one of them that offers more I/O. Although these are certainly not the only choices available, they are all intended for the 'home studio' market. You will still need more than one to meet your I/O needs (except with one of the MOTUs). There are numberous threads here regarding which one has the best converters, preamps, bells, whistles... Decide how much you want to spend first before you get into that debate however.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top