Here's what I want, What do I need?

T

teamhex

New member
I want a small home studio for recording and jamming out in. The room is about 10'x10' so it's pretty small.

I would like all instruments to go directly to a mixer(this gets rid of the need for amps for each guitar/bass).

The 2 guitar pedals(RP500, ME-70) have two outputs(One Left, One Right) and the ability to go straight to a mixer. There will also be an XLR microphone and a compact Roland drum set that has stereo outs as well.

How exactly does that work? Does each instrument require 2 channels at that point or would it work on a single channel?

I want everything to run to the mixer. It will then be pumped out to two floor speakers(One for left channel, One for right) AND/OR a splitter for 1/8th in headphones(would need the ability for 4 pairs of headphones at once. 3 for players, 1 for mixer user). Now I do have a 5 Watt Fender Champ 600 tube amp and a 4x12 Cab with 8Ohm Mono or 16Ohm Stereo inputs. I've never used the stereo...do you plug in two cables or does it just use the one input that says 16Ohm? Would this work to drive the sound so I don't have to buy floor speakers?

Anyway the idea is you can play loud during the day or go quiet when it's later at night.
Here's the part I'm just not knowledgeable about. I'd like the individual tracks on that mixer to be sent to my gaming PC for recording and adjustment after the fact. Say my drummer has his volume too high or the guitar player switches to a loud effect...I want to adjust that volume later.

I'm not looking for anything super fancy, but I'm assuming this feature alone is going to drive up the cost of this type of thing. Any recommendations on gear and what I'm going to need to complete this would be helpful. I'm not looking to spend a ton of money, and I'm willing to drop the individual tracks to my computer thing as long as I can get a single line in to the computer for recording, but I'm willing to throw an extra $150 toward it for this feature...if it costs way more than that...I can drop it as a feature.


Anyway. Any help would be great. Equipment links to things I'd need would be nice. I don't really have a budget, but I'm about to blow $1,000 on the drum kit and I have maybe another $400 I could spend on a mixer and other gear. So basically for $400 what could I get away with?
 
I suggest you explore some of the threads on this forum that already discuss these issues

1. You don't need a mixer - you need a multi-channel interface - a mixer that can record separate channels will be too expensive and you will need a multi-channel interface anyway.

Here's an article on them, you might want to get something with fewer channels, but I suggest that you get one with at least 6 inputs with built in pre-amps.
Multi-channel Audio Interfaces |

I don't what sort of gaming PC you have, but you will need to download a DAW to use it. The DAW will do the mixing for you.

2. You are going to have to have some acoustic treatment for the room because a small square room is the absolute worst sort to record in.
 
PSR said:
I suggest you explore some of the threads on this forum that already discuss these issues

1. You don't need a mixer - you need a multi-channel interface - a mixer that can record separate channels will be too expensive and you will need a multi-channel interface anyway.

Here's an article on them, you might want to get something with fewer channels, but I suggest that you get one with at least 6 inputs with built in pre-amps.
Multi-channel Audio Interfaces |

I don't what sort of gaming PC you have, but you will need to download a DAW to use it. The DAW will do the mixing for you.

2. You are going to have to have some acoustic treatment for the room because a small square room is the absolute worst sort to record in.
Click to expand...


Looks awesome, but I can't see even one on that list that's reasonably priced compared to something like this Yamaha MG10 mixer I'm looking at. I think I'd need that with a powered monitor and powered headphone splitter. I'm pretty sure I would then just need a stereo audio interface for my computer to run the output to. The computer side would be no issue, it's got a i7 6700k, 32gigs of DDR4 memory, monster video card, ext. It can handle anything thrown at it.

As long as I have a single out that goes to my computer for recording sessions...I'm cool with that. This doesn't have to be professional level stuff. I figured I was likely asking too much to have individual tracks pushed to the computer. I also don't want to have to have my computer on to control all the audio levels. I'd like a board that can be sat at and tinkered with to adjust sound to the headphones/monitors ext

There's nothing acoustic being recorded in the room. Everything would go direct to the mixer/interface so I don't see how that could be an issue(maybe I'm missing something).
The mic itself is the only thing that should pick up noise in the room and I don't plan on doing vocals very much. I never had an issue with my SM57 picking up too much noise even when I used to play loud with friends so I'm going to assume it's ok.

Thanks for the input though.
 
teamhex said:
I would like all instruments to go directly to a mixer(this gets rid of the need for amps for each guitar/bass).
Click to expand...

The nicest way to record guitar still is with mic. Me to can plug in guitar amps in my mixer incl effects, but the sound lacks 'space' and get's quite flat so i grab back on mic recording more and more last time.

Although it can be done when plugged in. So the option is open.
 
teamhex said:
Looks awesome, but I can't see even one on that list that's reasonably priced compared to something like this Yamaha MG10 mixer I'm looking at.
There's nothing acoustic being recorded in the room. Everything would go direct to the mixer/interface so I don't see how that could be an issue(maybe I'm missing something).
Click to expand...

Well you can use the MG10 with a much cheaper 2 channel interface, but I thought you wanted to do multitrack recording and mixing it afterwards. Maybe https://www.amazon.co.uk/Alesis-Mul...r=1-3&keywords=4+channel+audio+interface&th=1
(or similar) i.e. a mixer with a built in interface would be a better option for you.
This has a headphone socket and should be able to power two or three sets if you choose higher impedance ones.
The acoustic issue was not just about recording but also about mixing too.


You'll need a pair of active monitor speakers too perhaps.
 
Multitrack recording is a quantum leap above simple two-track recording.

The simplest option is all inputs into a small mixer with USB output. A pair of powered speakers from the outputs of the mixer will give you your 'floor speakers', a headphone amp coming from the headphone (or control room) output of the mixer will drive a number of headphones, and the USB will allow you to record a stereo mix from the mixer.
 
What they said ^^^ The cheap mixers you are looking at will not be able send more than a stereo (2 tracks, left and right) signal out to an interface, or out through USB to the computer. ALl your 'mixing' will have to be done on the mixer, pre-recording,
 
ZED-10FX - Allen & Heath

I really cannot commend the above mixer to you enough. I do not know of anything else to touch it? Apart from the excellent sound and build quality the features are...

High impedance line inputs DESIGNED for guitar (and passive acoustics as well) . FX send/returns so you can put pedals in the guitar etc feeds but there are some excellent on board effects as well.

24bit* USB recording making level setting to the computer very non-critical .

Yes, the mixer is $200 US but I doubt you will be happy with anything cheaper so start saving! One area of saving is the 4 way headphone amplifier. The Behringer AH400 is $20 or so and remarkable good.

The Acoustic Treatment referred to is to improve the sound of REPLAY when you will be criticizing your recordings. It can be as simple as stacking some bags (unopened) of glass fibre or rockwool in each corner. Mind you, by the time you have all the kit in there AND the bodies AND seating there won't be a lot of need. Go for old, padded armchairs not hard "office" type seating.

I shall get back to you about the Fender amp...

Lastly for now. Do you or a mate have any electronics smarts? Can any of you solder? See, you can do "cheap" much easier if you can make up cables and other bits of "special" gear. Not talking Rocket Science here! Just wee, passive boxes that make life easier.

*A second hand unit could be good but beware of a VERY early one, they are 16 bit converters. OK but not as easy to use as the 24s.

Dave.
 
The Fender amp is IMHO a no-no. Look around Cash Generator type shops and charity shops for an amplifier.
Ideally it would be a rack mount PA but a hefty receiver would suit. Go for the greatest power you can find, 50-80W ("never mind the quality. Feel the width!) . Note, you only need the power section of a hi fi amp so something with buggered phono input stages would be fine and you can bid them LOW for it!

The 4X 12 speaker is far from ideal (but it WILL be loud!). You will need 2x mono jack cables (see, tronics smarts!) these can be bog S Orange garden gear 2core cable.

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
The Fender amp is IMHO a no-no. Look around Cash Generator type shops and charity shops for an amplifier.
Ideally it would be a rack mount PA but a hefty receiver would suit. Go for the greatest power you can find, 50-80W ("never mind the quality. Feel the width!) . Note, you only need the power section of a hi fi amp so something with buggered phono input stages would be fine and you can bid them LOW for it!

The 4X 12 speaker is far from ideal (but it WILL be loud!). You will need 2x mono jack cables (see, tronics smarts!) these can be bog S Orange garden gear 2core cable.

Dave.
Click to expand...

Holy crap thanks. That's a lot of info. I'm a computer tech by trade so I could do some basic soldering, I just haven't done it before. My buddy is big into drone building so he could help me as well.

I have many speaker, XLR, and guitar cables from back when I jammed(nice ones) weekly so I don't think I'll need many extra cables. I was already ready to spend $200 on that Yamaha so that mixer looks pretty good. They look similar

I didn't realize they needed to be high impedance inputs. I do have an SM57 I could use to record just guitar parts if I had to. I also have about 12 large foam squares I could make a small box to put the mic in front of the amp and cut down on echo/noise. I didn't think the quality would be that much worse going directly into the mixer. I figured the amp and effects modeling would be decent enough for what I'm trying to do....BUT I always buy all tube amps because of the sound, especially low wattage ones like that fender. Loud enough to jam and gives you more than enough headroom on the 4x12 cab. Not many options on for EQ'in it though.

My only other question about that mixer would be what are the ST-1 and ST-2 inputs for? I figured the guitars go on their special inputs, but where do I put the stereo drums in? What if I wanted to add a bass guitar to the mix? Would it be ok on the first two inputs or one of the ST inputs?

Also it seems I can't find that Mixer for under $300 US. I have Amazon Prime and was hoping to pick it up from there, but it seems like it does what that Yamaha does. I'm not 100% sure on the guitar inputs, but the Yamaha does have an effects line in so I would assume it has the ability to run two guitars. Could you look at that and see? All I see are -10dBu . No idea what that means.I want the one you showed me, but I don't think I can swing another $100 if the Yamaha MG10XU can do the same. It also has 24Bit USB interface with two track out so It should do what I want. I also don't need amazing effects on the board, maybe some for the mic or drums when doing some Led zep.
 
Sweetwater have the mixer at $249.99 or so.

High Z inputs are needed for passive electric guitar, going into a normal 20k line input makes things dull and "sucks tone" .
The Zed's HZ in are actually 10 meg Ohms and so will give excellent results on piezo acoustics.

I hope the block diagram helps (you can download the whole manual from S'water) ? The HZ ins are 3 &4 and those can be panned to wherever you want guitar or bass to appear. Other stuff can go into the stereo line ins.

Foam is not actually ALL that useful acoustically but since you have it, have a go. The essence of home recording is experimentation!

Don't know jack about the Yamaha but it might be as good as the ZED.

Dave.
 

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teamhex said:
My only other question about that mixer would be what are the ST-1 and ST-2 inputs for? I figured the guitars go on their special inputs, but where do I put the stereo drums in? What if I wanted to add a bass guitar to the mix? Would it be ok on the first two inputs or one of the ST inputs?
Click to expand...

ST1 and ST2 are two stereo inputs. You could use them for inputting, say, stereo keyboards, or a CD player, or anything with a line-level output. If you have an active bass, you could use either for that. However, a passive bass would be best in an 'inst' channel, and you've used up two for your guitars. You could put the bass through a DI and go into a mike channel.
 
gecko zzed said:
ST1 and ST2 are two stereo inputs. You could use them for inputting, say, stereo keyboards, or a CD player, or anything with a line-level output. If you have an active bass, you could use either for that. However, a passive bass would be best in an 'inst' channel, and you've used up two for your guitars. You could put the bass through a DI and go into a mike channel.
Click to expand...

Very cool, didn't know those existed. I like that those boxes aren't too expensive. I don't have the need for bass guitar at the moment...but I may pick one up so I can invite my bass playing friends over for a jam session. Thanks man!
 
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