My website........again......
- Thread starter wjgypsy
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Disco_Dave
New member
Relax Zeke, I think a lot of people here quite respect what you are trying to do. You have ambition and clearly a genuine passion which is more than most have for their chosen career.
I think the mesaage people are trying to give you is "don't try to run before you can walk". You do not help yourself by giving snotty replies, even if people are making disparaging comments about you.
All I want to say is good luck, be open to suggestions, and more importantly be ambitious, but stay realistic.
I think the mesaage people are trying to give you is "don't try to run before you can walk". You do not help yourself by giving snotty replies, even if people are making disparaging comments about you.
All I want to say is good luck, be open to suggestions, and more importantly be ambitious, but stay realistic.
frederic
New member
ZEKE SAYER said:
"surround sound" is often confusing, but let me make an attempt to explain it, as there are different aspects to it.
First, "surround capability" simply means you have 6 speakers, or eight speakers, and a console that has at least that many busses.
Six speakers being:
Left front, left rear, right front, right rear, center and sub (lf).
Eight speakers being:
Left front, left middle, left rear, right front, right rear, center and sub (lf), or similar.
Having all the monitors, amps, and mixing busses essentually gives you the ability to record, and monitor, surround sound. But this is only part of it.
Mixing surround sound is significantly more complex than stereo, because eventually the surround sound (6 or 8 channels worth) gets encoded down to a digital data stream which ultimately ends up compressed - so the frequency response of the "alternate" channels may be limited.
That being said, an inexperienced engineer might have stereo left/right perfect, but with the surround audio data encoded, might have phasing issues mixed in that ultimately sound like schite. To do surround properly, you need an elaborate and expensive monitoring systemed, carefully tuned to the mixing space, with crossovers, room structure and surface adjustments, etc. This is not something you can do well with three Event 20/20's and a radio shack sub with five behringer crossovers, period, end of discussion.
To do this properly, you're in the price range of Genelec's for example, and if you hunt around at pricing you'll see your in the $20K and up range just for the monitoring system, not including tuning, mounting, soffiting, room tuning.
Now that you have purchased all this "stuff", and are successfully mixing 5.1 or 7.1 to an 8 track recorder for mastering, how do you get it to a digital encoded stereo format?
Well, you can record the eight tracks (or six) into a RME card into your favorite software, and use software encoding, ending up with a wave file to burn to CD. Thats probably the least expensive way to do it, however I've heard some of the lower cost solutions and I can pick them out as compared to a more professional solution, which requires the six or eight channels being "sent" to a rackmount encoder.
THX licenses technology for encoders, as does Dolby and DTS. Which encoding scheme do you want to use? That depends on your customer, or end result. For playback in the consumer market, Dolby is strong and DTS is very strong, probably the best choice. For video production work THX needs to be seriously considered, as many, many movie theaters are utilizing THX.
Once you encode it, you have a finished product. How do you listen to it? Well, a decoder of course
Do you own a home theater system that can properly decode THX, Dolby and DTS? Probably not. Probably Dolby or DTS. Fine if you're not doing theater work.Because I did some "pro" work, I have the following devices in my studio, and I can assure you they weren't free, or even nearly free.
DTS: CAE-4 encoder, CED-4 decoder
http://www.psintl.com.hk/dts/cae4-specs.html
Dolby: DP569 encoder, DP562 decoder
http://www.psintl.com.hk/dolby/dolby.html
The dolby units do AC-3 for DVD work as well as Dolby E and a few other things which is nice. Dolby has so many formats its tough to find one magic box that does "enough" of it.
frederic
New member
In regards to whether Zeke can advertise himself as 5.1 capable or not is more of a definition question more than what we all think is appropriate or moral.
Personally, I don't feel with the gear he listed he's properly equiped, but then again I've worked in studios that have spent more on cables than I've spent on everything I have in my home studio.
And things have changed drastically over the years too. Decades ago if you didn't have an SSL or NEVE 96 channel console and rooms of reel machines, you were an amatuer.
Now we have bands/groups like Eiffel 65 that did their entire album on a PC, with an expensive microphone, all in software and produced a high quality recording (whether or not its your style of music or not, the quality of the recording is professional and properly compressed for consumer use).
But then again, having $100K worth of monitoring and encoding devices doesn't mean a quality surround mix is definate.
I've said this before and I'll repeat it for my entertainment:
An experienced engineer using a Tascam 244 will produce a significantly better recording than an intoxicated monkey operating an SSL 6080 console
Part of it is training, part of it is experience, part of it is talent and creativity, part of it is patience and determination. The gear, while important, is secondary to the talent behind the console.
Just me 2 cents, and no, I can't break a $50.
Personally, I don't feel with the gear he listed he's properly equiped, but then again I've worked in studios that have spent more on cables than I've spent on everything I have in my home studio.
And things have changed drastically over the years too. Decades ago if you didn't have an SSL or NEVE 96 channel console and rooms of reel machines, you were an amatuer.
Now we have bands/groups like Eiffel 65 that did their entire album on a PC, with an expensive microphone, all in software and produced a high quality recording (whether or not its your style of music or not, the quality of the recording is professional and properly compressed for consumer use).
But then again, having $100K worth of monitoring and encoding devices doesn't mean a quality surround mix is definate.
I've said this before and I'll repeat it for my entertainment:
An experienced engineer using a Tascam 244 will produce a significantly better recording than an intoxicated monkey operating an SSL 6080 console
Part of it is training, part of it is experience, part of it is talent and creativity, part of it is patience and determination. The gear, while important, is secondary to the talent behind the console.
Just me 2 cents, and no, I can't break a $50.
jake-owa
Banned
Zeke, the really major difference here is that your system, while a 5.1 surround home theater stereo, may play surround material, it is not capable of mixing that format with any accuracy.
I (once again) think it's grat that you want to do this kind of work and it is a very ambitious endeavour but I think it might hurt your credability and reputation in the long run to advertise the service before you have a clue about what you're doing. Do yourself a favor, visit a real surround capable studio and ask some questions. Check out the technical data and get a clearer idea of what the surround business is about. What are you going to do when word gets around that Fatman studios is the epitome of what a bad surround facility is like. Your mixes WILL NOT translate well to other stereos and home theaters.
Zeke buddy don't get too mad but those speakers are not any better than your average computer speakers. Do you really think that good accurate monitors come in sets of six with amplification? They do not and that system is one of the cheapest 5.1 systems availible on the consumer market.
I would rather you get a bit pissy at me than have to dig yourself out of a bad reputation or worse, have to move and change your studio name to escape it.
The technical details of monitoring environment are only one (very important) aspect of surround...there's a hell of a lot more.
I (once again) think it's grat that you want to do this kind of work and it is a very ambitious endeavour but I think it might hurt your credability and reputation in the long run to advertise the service before you have a clue about what you're doing. Do yourself a favor, visit a real surround capable studio and ask some questions. Check out the technical data and get a clearer idea of what the surround business is about. What are you going to do when word gets around that Fatman studios is the epitome of what a bad surround facility is like. Your mixes WILL NOT translate well to other stereos and home theaters.
Zeke buddy don't get too mad but those speakers are not any better than your average computer speakers. Do you really think that good accurate monitors come in sets of six with amplification? They do not and that system is one of the cheapest 5.1 systems availible on the consumer market.
I would rather you get a bit pissy at me than have to dig yourself out of a bad reputation or worse, have to move and change your studio name to escape it.
The technical details of monitoring environment are only one (very important) aspect of surround...there's a hell of a lot more.
mixmkr
we don't need rest!!
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Originally posted by ZEKE SAYER
Hey man, so what if your studio is better than myne, so what? I really don't give a shit.
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Originally posted by blue bear sound
Me neither... but apparently mixmkr does for some bizarre
reason....
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why would I give a shit about that?
Get your head out of your ass bear, and realize I made no reference comparing your two studios...
the basement reference only happens to be true with about 99% of the studios that people have around here anyway...or in the extra bedroom... Get a grip...having a studio in your basement is ok.... really!! You're not being penalized!!
now...the client list.....
Originally posted by ZEKE SAYER
Hey man, so what if your studio is better than myne, so what? I really don't give a shit.
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Originally posted by blue bear sound
Me neither... but apparently mixmkr does for some bizarre
reason....
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why would I give a shit about that?
Get your head out of your ass bear, and realize I made no reference comparing your two studios...
the basement reference only happens to be true with about 99% of the studios that people have around here anyway...or in the extra bedroom... Get a grip...having a studio in your basement is ok.... really!! You're not being penalized!!
now...the client list.....
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Michael Jones
New member
![biggrininvasion[1].gif](/bbs/data/attachments/3/3091-68ab49425d5d7b07338b02297883f84c.jpg)
DonF
Call Me "Grandpa"
Bruce, I checked out your web site, just for comparison. It is very impressive, and your facility looks like a great place to work. But what's that about "We can even handle editing of your DV or VHS videos!" (on the Info page)? I looked in your equipment list and didn't see any mention of a TBC, vector scope, calibrated NTSC monitors, etc. So, unless you really do have access to that equipment, you're not properly equipped to handle video editing. How is this different from Zeke's claim of 5.1 surround capability?Blue Bear Sound said:
I don't think that anyone would expect broadcast-ready video from your facility, or Hollywood-ready surround sound from Zeke's.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
I can certainly import DV video directly to the computer for editing, via a DV camera's digital interface... and I have performed this service already for a couple of clients -- simple video editing - no conversions......
And I don't recall mentioning anything about broadcast standard video editing on my page - it's a casual service I can perform for clients want to, but don't have the means to, do their own video dubs...
This is vastly different from Zeke advertising a well-spec'd technical service such as 5.1 surround whose room and equipment requirements are immediately obvious.
And I don't recall mentioning anything about broadcast standard video editing on my page - it's a casual service I can perform for clients want to, but don't have the means to, do their own video dubs...
This is vastly different from Zeke advertising a well-spec'd technical service such as 5.1 surround whose room and equipment requirements are immediately obvious.
DonF
Call Me "Grandpa"
Fair enough.
Seems like it's all about providing one-stop shopping for your clients. If they want to do a bit of simple video editing, you can help them with that. The parallel I'm trying to draw is that, at Zeke's place, if the client wants to produce, say, a soundtrack for a video game, they might be able to get away with the 5.1 capability he provides.
Seems like it's all about providing one-stop shopping for your clients. If they want to do a bit of simple video editing, you can help them with that. The parallel I'm trying to draw is that, at Zeke's place, if the client wants to produce, say, a soundtrack for a video game, they might be able to get away with the 5.1 capability he provides.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Sure - except that 5.1 surround mixing specifically requires a well-defined set of criteria in terms of equipment, and room monitoring, neither of which Zeke's facility meets.DonF said:
If I defined my video dubbing services as meeting all broadcast standards, and I didn't have the requisite gear and monitoring abilities to do it, then the situation would parallel Zeke's description.
I'm not sure I understand why all the fuss about this though -- bottom-line is he can hype himself anyway he wants on his website... the point is though, in this thread he ASKS for comments about his site and that's what he got....
It's my opinion that he's overdoing his own hype, but that's only based on my tendency to be absolutely honest about the services I provide to clients and potential clients. I have Cubase SX which support 5.1 mixing, but would I dream of advertising myself as a 5.1 surround mixing facility? No way....
While he's at it, he may as well throw-in something about being a mastering facility too then, since I'm sure he's got some Maximizer plug-ins on his computer!
Velvet Elvis
Ahh humma humma humma
Wow... I've actually been selling my self short...
I never thought about "bending" the rules a little to sell myself to clients.
I could say "fully automated mixer"... my board runs off that new fangled homosapien-digital drive mechanism.
boy oh boy I'm gonna have to rethink my whole studio description now.
The Velvet'est' of Elvis's (or is it Elvii?)
I never thought about "bending" the rules a little to sell myself to clients.
I could say "fully automated mixer"... my board runs off that new fangled homosapien-digital drive mechanism.
boy oh boy I'm gonna have to rethink my whole studio description now.
The Velvet'est' of Elvis's (or is it Elvii?)
frederic
New member
Me either. All you need to do is advertise something you can't do, then you have to lie your way out of a customer request. Easier to just say "No, I don't do that, but I can outsource it if its that critical to your proejct".
Heheheh. My Tascam TMD1000's are fully automated, even though the fader's don't move. Before I tore down the studio, I the six of them attached to an emagic midi interface, and recorded/played the fader/pan settings in order to automate the mix.
Alarmingly, it worked.
Velvet Elvis
Ahh humma humma humma
I actually use an old Yamaha ProMix O1 (the original) if I need automated channels... that gives me 16 automated channels with 4 f/x sends... since most other stuff (drums, bass etc) tends to stay fairly static.
I thought the proper response for over-promising to a customer was... "Well.. normally I *can* do that... but that piece of gear is in for repair this week... sorry"
Velvet Elvis
I thought the proper response for over-promising to a customer was... "Well.. normally I *can* do that... but that piece of gear is in for repair this week... sorry"
Velvet Elvis
Blue Bear Sound
New member
I don't think that will work for Zeke....Velvet Elvis said:
"Well... normally I *can* do that... but my surround monitors, room acoustics and setup, and 5.1 mixing buss are all in for repairs this week!"
Blue Bear Sound
New member
I'm on Win2K with a firewire interface... I have 3 light video editing packages I use... been a while since I used them though, so I'll have to look on the studio's comp to see the names.... as I recall, they all worked quite well and allowed me quite a few tools. I certainly didn't notice any dropped frames though.frederic said:
Before using the direct DV interface, I used a Hollywood A/V converter -- that unit dropped frames like you wouldn't believe when trying to work with DV -- so now I use it only if I need to transfer VHS to DV...
Velvet Elvis
Ahh humma humma humma
Bruce,
bwahahahahaha... how about "normally I *can* do that, but my main studio's toilet backed up... flooded the whole place... so now I'm working with my 'temp' set up."
I'm never gonna post pictures or comments from my studio with as much as you like to rip on people ;P
hehehehehe
Velvet Elvis
bwahahahahaha... how about "normally I *can* do that, but my main studio's toilet backed up... flooded the whole place... so now I'm working with my 'temp' set up."
I'm never gonna post pictures or comments from my studio with as much as you like to rip on people ;P
hehehehehe
Velvet Elvis