My guitar is hurting me!

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Lt. Bob said:
if I'm on a gig and I get shocked when I touch the mic I simply try not to touch it more than I have to ....... occasionally I'll forget ..... get a little too close and get bit..
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yeah i always made a mental note to stay a few inches away but sometimes ya forget...
 
Lt. Bob said:
no shit ...... if I'm on a gig and I get shocked when I touch the mic I simply try not to touch it more than I have to ....... occasionally I'll forget ..... get a little too close and get bit.
Doesn't freak me out nor does it even really get my attention much.
It'll never happen that I die from it.

Now ....... one time I did come close but it wasn't a grounding problem ..... I was using a SVT amp ( the amp that one of the guys that DID die from a shock was using at the time) and the power switch can get knocked in such a way that 110v is going to the chassis which means it's going to your bass.
I stepped forward .... my lips touched the mic and *BAM!!* ..... I saw blue fire and was knocked to the floor. It was like someone hit me in the face with a bat.
:D:D:D:D

So I got up .... and you know how you touch the git strings to the mic stand to see if you get a crackle?
I touched the bass guitar E string to the stand and *pow!* , it was immediately burned through and snapped!

:eek:

There were burn marks on the chrome mic stand.

HAHAHAHA!

THAT hurt like a bitch.

But it wasn't really what you'd call a grounding problem ..... it was 110 volts to the bass ...... and my lips.

:laughings:
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It sounds like a "Grounding Problem" to me. If the amp was grounded it would have instantly blew a fuse and or circuit breaker. That is what "Equipment Grounding" is for. See, when you make the chassis "Grounded" It is at the opposite potential difference of the "Phase" (Hot) conductor. So when the chassis becomes "Live" it causes an intentional short circuit which blows the fuse or trips the circuit breaker. If the chassis is not grounded it then becomes live and stays live.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity)

VP
 
For once I actually agree with VP on safety, scary . . . hold me :eek:

Whether or not a shock kills you or just pisses you off depends on the voltage, your skin resistance at the moment (dry is megaohms, wet is . . . a whole lot less) and the current path through your body. Mouth on mic to hand on guitar wouldn't be my first choice as that path comes plenty close to your heart and both sides are likely wet . . .
 
It is not just the 120V AC that is dangerous, even more dangerous is the DC plate voltages in Vacuum Tube amps. Voltages as high as 450V DC can be in there. DC is even more dangerous than AC because AC exhibits the "Skin Effect" Skin effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. DC current will go right through all parts of the body, AC may tend to stay on the surface.

VP

PS I have wired Cell Sites and have noticed the cable they use for the transmitters are hollow copper. At those high frequencies there is no need to have copper in the middle of the cable because there is very little current in the center.
 
Jon Stoppable said:
For once I actually agree with VP on safety, scary . . . hold me :eek:

Whether or not a shock kills you or just pisses you off depends on the voltage, your skin resistance at the moment (dry is megaohms, wet is . . . a whole lot less) and the current path through your body. Mouth on mic to hand on guitar wouldn't be my first choice as that path comes plenty close to your heart and both sides are likely wet . . .
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How have you disagreed with me before?

VP

PS Salt content in your blood is another factor. Salt conducts.
 
Once the current gets through your skin resistance is really low, so we can neglect that in the calculation of current.
 
moresound said:
If this has just started happening over the last few months then it's just a static electricity build up from walking on your rug and touching your gear.
I have noticed it myself being a very dry winter and all.
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arcaxis said:
My vote goes to a static discharge as well. It was mentioned "shoes/slippers on a carpeted floor". Shuffle your feet a little in a dry room and you've likely got a charge that gets you zapped when you touch something that is in someway grounded. Up in Maine the OP is probably still got the heat running which will dry the house out.

Is this a clue?

If it is static your equipment is at risk to having something internal damaged. I blew the front end of a bass head this way when I picked up a cord that was plugged into the head and zapped it with static.
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What if it isnt?

VP
 
Jon Stoppable said:
Once the current gets through your skin resistance is really low, so we can neglect that in the calculation of current.
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"Once the current gets through your skin resistance is really low" Can you explain this statement?
Neglect what?

VP
 
There's a pretty big difference between static discharge and continuous current that pretty much anyone can feel.
 
Ignore the term:

I = V / (R1 + R2) ~ V / R1 where R1 >> R2
 
I'm just sayin' ...... point me to the people who died from this.
If it's as dangerous as people make it out to be ..... then there should be a decent number of fatalities from it because there are LOTS and LOTS of people who, ignorantly or otherwise, don't worry about it.

So if it's truly that risky at least some of them should have died as a result of ignoring the problem. And with the huge numbers of people involved the numbers should be substantial ...... but they're not ........ there's pretty close to no examples of people dying from a bad ground on an amp.
And the reason you can't find a list of deaths from this situation is because there aren't any.
And if something almost never happens ..... then that makes it unlikely ..... by definition.


There's the guy from the Black Crows who was using an SVT so it could have been the same thing that happened to me and doesn't count as a grounding issue ..... and there's like, 2 other guys that I've been able to find.

And , once again, I didn't say it can't happen .... I said it's extremely unlikely and very rare.

Since there aren't any dead people to point to as proof of it's dangers then the fact that it's rare is just that .... a fact.
And that fact supports the idea that it's also unlikely since something being likely or unlikely is based on how often it happens.
It essentially never happens so it's pretty damned unlikely.

As for V.P. ....... I have him on ignore so I'm not gonna waste my time trying to convince him of anything .... every once in a while I'll open one of his posts just to see if there's anything worth reading but there never is.
Just the same "Oh ...... I'm an electrician" ..... "oh ...... I'm a luthier" ........ "oh ...... I'm a master carpenter" etc. etc.

None of it ever true and never supported by anything other than stuff he cuts and pastes from the 'net.
 
Lt. Bob said:
I'm just sayin' ...... point me to the people who died from this.
If it's as dangerous as people make it out to be ..... then there should be a decent number of fatalities from it because there are LOTS and LOTS of people who, ignorantly or otherwise, don't worry about it.

So if it's truly that risky at least some of them should have died as a result of ignoring the problem. And with the huge numbers of people involved the numbers should be substantial ...... but they're not ........ there's pretty close to no examples of people dying from a bad ground on an amp.
And the reason you can't find a list of deaths from this situation is because there aren't any.
And if something almost never happens ..... then that makes it unlikely ..... by definition.


There's the guy from the Black Crows who was using an SVT so it could have been the same thing that happened to me and doesn't count as a grounding issue ..... and there's like, 2 other guys that I've been able to find.

And , once again, I didn't say it can't happen .... I said it's extremely unlikely and very rare.

Since there aren't any dead people to point to as proof of it's dangers then the fact that it's rare is just that .... a fact.
And that fact supports the idea that it's also unlikely since something being likely or unlikely is based on how often it happens.
It essentially never happens so it's pretty damned unlikely.

As for V.P. ....... I have him on ignore so I'm not gonna waste my time trying to convince him of anything .... every once in a while I'll open one of his posts just to see if there's anything worth reading but there never is.
Just the same "Oh ...... I'm an electrician" ..... "oh ...... I'm a luthier" ........ "oh ...... I'm a master carpenter" etc. etc.

None of it ever true and never supported by anything other than stuff he cuts and pastes from the 'net.
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It is dangerous, why you continue to defend your argument is a mystery.
I never said I was a "Master Carpenter". There is no Master Carpenters License here in RI. I do have quite a bit of experience in the construction trades. Please refrain from insulting me and telling people that "none of it is ever true", or I will report you again.

VP
Your Quote
"None of it ever true and never supported by anything other than stuff he cuts and pastes from the 'net."

Should I post pictures again to "Support" my statements?
 
moresound said:
If this has just started happening over the last few months then it's just a static electricity build up from walking on your rug and touching your gear.
I have noticed it myself being a very dry winter and all.
Click to expand...

Good for kicks zapping the cat on the nose as you go by.
 
Yeah. Come to think of it all the times I've been zapped I don't ever recall getting killed.

On the other hand he's saying 'feels alive from touching plastic. Hmm. Sounds wierd.
But it then it could represent a little more potential than your typical 'lip-on a sweaty mic situation.
 
mixsit said:
Yeah. Come to think of it all the times I've been zapped I don't ever recall getting killed.

On the other hand he's saying 'feels alive from touching plastic. Hmm. Sounds wierd.
But it then it could represent a little more potential than your typical 'lip-on a sweaty mic situation.
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You can thank your "T Cycle". Some plastic housings are semi-conductive for shielding purposes, not unlike the conductive fabric shield in some cables.

VP

I think I was told the "T Cycle" is basically a 100th of a second period, so if you only get shocked for 1 second you get a 99% chance of living! That is why when someone gets shocked and cant let go because of muscle contraction they are sure to hit their "T Cycle" and their mortality is 0%.
 
Hey, Pete - have you got any "pictures" of your screwdriver/pliers carrying case and your test equipment? A couple of shots of "oscilloscopes" would be nice too. Can you put a "loaf of bread" in the shots so that we can tell the pics aren't "googled"?

Thanks.
 
I am going to be one who jumps in with dire warnings.....

"let me jump in and say that people, and there's gonna be a lot of them, that will chime in and say how deadly this can be are seriously exxagerating the situation.
Google the number of people who have actually died from this and it's like 2 or 3 people out of literally billions of instances of people playing thru amps and surely million and millions of times where they played while getting shocked.
The potential for harm exists but it's very, very small.

Sure ..... you want to fix it but mostly because it's really distracting to get shocked while you're playing/recording. " Lt. Bob.


I agree it is very distracting. That distraction is a mild reminder that something is amiss. Be grateful it is only a reminder not a farewell. Household AC is nothing to be trifled with, yeah it hurts and makes you really mad but it can kill you. You really should follow some of the above advice and check your grounding. Better safe than a contibuter to a change in statistics. Be well all. PS Bob didn't intend to single you out for ridicule, I liked your comment if only as springboard to promote safety. The world needs artists alive!!
 
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