My Corona

[Mick Doobie]

To be honest that says it all man.
I'm just making a suggestion since there's now a line of people rolling their eyes at you.

You want to bring up forum rules and violations, which are totally irrelevant, presumably to draw me in to a side debate that I'll lose then look like you won something and have the last word?

Maybe that's why TAE, after a several hundred posts of saintly patience, is finally expecting more.

All I'm suggesting is that maybe being less rigid in your stance, or accepting that unity is unlikely to be reached, might make these 'healthy debates' go a little smoother.

I'm not rolling my eyes. Seems to me...

TAE is casting doubt while providing no evidence that this thing came out of China. Seems he is even suggesting that it possibly came out of Spain first and then through China(?). Again, while providing no evidence.

Miro believes it came out of China. The common consensus says it came out of China. Evidence strongly suggests it came out of China.

Hey, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Believe it came out of Spain if you want, but I think it's safe to say it came out of fucking China. That is my opinion, the majority opinion, btw. The question, did it pass from animal to human naturally? Did it pass naturally through those f-ed up wet markets? Did perhaps someone in the lab in an effort to make a little extra dough take animals from the lab to sell at the wet market? Did it simply somehow escape the lab in Wuhan?

I've seen no evidence which either proves or disproves any of those scenarios.

I value everyone's opinion, and am not trying to take sides with or against anyone. Let's do that.

 

[miroslav]

I edited my previous post above...in case you guys missed it.

Done here...that's what was wanted by some.

 

[Steenamaroo]

I'm not rolling my eyes. Seems to me...

TAE is casting doubt while providing no evidence that this thing came out of China. Seems he is even suggesting that it possibly came out of Spain first and then through China(?). Again, while providing no evidence.

Miro believes it came out of China. The common consensus says it came out of China. Evidence strongly suggests it came out of China.

Hey, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Believe it came out of Spain if you want, but I think it's safe to say it came out of fucking China. That is my opinion, the majority opinion, btw. The question, did it pass from animal to human naturally? Did it pass naturally through those f-ed up wet markets? Did perhaps someone in the lab in an effort to make a little extra dough take animals from the lab to sell at the wet market? Did it simply somehow escape the lab in Wuhan?

I've seen no evidence which either proves or disproves any of those scenarios.

I value everyone's opinion, and am not trying to take sides with or against anyone. Let's do that.

Aye, I was talking more about a broader pattern than the most recent debate specifically.
Debates are interesting...hell, even conspiracy theories can be interesting. An inability to say "well, let's agree to disagree" can ruin both.

 

[Mick Doobie]

lol .... same old Miroslav ..... no one's more biased than you but sure, accuse others of the same thing you constantly display

Hey Lt. Hope all is well, brother, considering. I suppose gigs are few and far between these days? Sucks, man, I feel for you.

 

[Mickster]

Any person should be able to take a left or right or middle view of ANY debate / conversation. All are legitimate and....none of them is usually 100% wrong or right. None of them. By nature.......that MEANS that all three of those stances WILL cast doubt on the two others. It comes with the territory and you have to know that going in. Forceful opinion is not proof of anything. The origin of "facts" based on...."I heard this".....or "just watch TV".....or some conspiracy theory website......can be doubted....and maybe should be at times. Just listen and agree or disagree without PERSONAL insult. If you can't do that.......fine........that's you......be you.....no problem. But you don't have the right to insult others.......often by angrily distorting their opinion into something it's not........and insulting them for not handling their views or arguments as you think they should.....all the time wanting to bait them into further useless repetitive debate.....in quest of just needing to "win".....or to quell that all consuming fear of most people......the fear of being wrong.

In this thread....many members of this forum didn't chime in. Maybe those were the wisest of all.

Just my 2 cents worth.....and if I'm wrong.....or you think I'm wrong....I'm good with that. My life won't change. And if you don't insult me for my views.......we're good.

 

[TAE]

I'm not rolling my eyes. Seems to me...

TAE is casting doubt while providing no evidence that this thing came out of China. Seems he is even suggesting that it possibly came out of Spain first and then through China(?). Again, while providing no evidence.

I realize with all the Miro twist and turns, dancing and positioning you may believe I said something because Miro said I said it .... Casting doubt? ...That's a Miro thing....What I said in one response pretty much states my stance...

I have not made up my mind, I just recognize we don't know ...YET....and there is no conclusive answer YET.... Let's leave it to the scientist that are investigating this world wide to come to a unified conclusion rather than the twisted media and a bunch politicians positioning for their next political move... No one has come up with a conclusive answer as to who or where patient zero was...

With regard to Spain yes I posted an legitimate article that reported that sewage water samples collected in March 2019 in Spain contained the Covid-19 virus...That's for real and is currently being peer reviewed....It was just an example of showing that WE DON'T KNOW YET!........... Miro countered with

So a test tube from a Barcelona sewer collected in March 2019 has some traces of the virus....and that somehow suggests that the virus jumped across Europe, leaving NO trail...landing in Wuhan, and from there it exploded into pandemic.

Of which I asked because he implied it was so...so you have scientific evidence that there is no trail? Of which he obviously could not support his "fact" so he attacked, denied and smoke screened with his I can scream louder than you can so I win attitude... error...Sometimes you just have to ask or say WTF?

 

[Mick Doobie]

Personally, I didn't see where Miro overstepped. Seems others have had a problem with style rather than substance, or there is some history of which I am unaware. A grudge for lack of a better word, maybe? It's an interesting and timely topic, angular in nature. Miro has played a large part in keeping this thread going. I think that is a good thing, I enjoy checking back from time to time. Others might say he is beating a dead horse. If so, if that is your opinion, don't check back, don't read or post in this thread. Simple solution.

As far as this thing coming out of Spain, that sewer water there tested positive for covid way back in March of 2019, that's f-ing crazy. I haven't heard that, anywhere. Although I find it hard to believe and would like to see proof, I do not believe it. Buuuut....I heard it here 1st!

Tell me more. I would be interested in any corroborative speculation.

Sorry TAE. Reading your latest post now, and am going to go back to look at what you posted about Spain sewer water....including in links you provided. Sorry, Mon.

 

[Mick Doobie]

I don't know, man.

If you say it (possibly) started in Spain, and Miro asks for proof of a trail back to China...that's reasonable.

To ask Miro to provide proof of no trail from Spain back to China.....isn't that asking that Miro prove a negative?

I think that shit came from China. As do most people, including (most of) the "experts". Most of that kind of shit comes from China. There's a pattern, and patterns mean something. Personally, I think it needs to be said loud and clear, that shit came out of China. They initially tried to hide it.

Yeah, I heard that on "the news". Was that false reporting? Well, we sort through it, listen and read, and come up with our own opinions based on that. I mean, really, will we ever have a definitive consensus of fact coming from the "news"? Hell no, or probably not. Nearly everything is biased these days.

 

[Steenamaroo]

I think telling someone 'don't check back' for not having a rigid stance on an issue isn't great.

On the other hand if someone can't accept that you're undecided and apparently needs you to adopt a hard stance and prove it, or assume theirs, maybe they shouldn't check back.

 

[Mick Doobie]

Okay TAE, I read your link.

University of Barcelona, Spain, while testing more recent samples, they as well decided to test old samples for covid. Among old samples tested, one old sample came back positive for covid. Sample collected March 2019. Interesting, but (IN MY OPINION!) something doesn't sound right.

1) One lone sample testing positive. Low level positive at that. Even the article states error has not yet been ruled out. Lab error? Cross contamination? False positive?

2) "There was the potential for a false positive due to the virus’ similarities with other respiratory infections."

Nuff said.

Each to their own opinion, but personally, I ain't buying it. Going the conspiracy route, given all the China ass kissing going on, I wouldn't put anything past an effort to muddy the waters to ease responsibility for China being the lone cause of this worldwide pandemic. Or it could simply be a lab error. All in all, barely worth a mention at this point, I would think.

 

[Mickster]

If you are interested in the subject and have some curiosity to learn or update yourself or even maybe change or formulate an opinion.......checking into a thread like this....or any other......is not only a good thing........but is pretty much what you do. Let's not do the.....if you don't like it don't look thing. I get that......but this forum IS a "look" thing. It thrives only when people want to look.

 

[Mick Doobie]

I think telling someone 'don't check back' for not having a rigid stance on an issue isn't great.

That's ridiculous, dude. I never said that, at all. Misrepresenting what someone said or intended to say isn't great.

Agree to disagree is a 2 way street. I know TAE was joking, or was talking metaphorically, but expressing you'd like to take a rake to someone because they disagree with you isn't that.

On the other hand if someone can't accept that you're undecided and apparently needs you to adopt a hard stance and prove it, or assume theirs, maybe they shouldn't check back.

On the other hand, grow the fuck up? Don't get bent, maybe? Take a hard stance, don't take a hard stance. Prove your stance or don't prove your stance. Check back or don't check back. Whatever. Focusing on style over substance just might cause one more aggravation than you might wish to experience. If so, not checking back might be a better option. Saying Miro is a doo doo head and always has been is boring, and irrelevant.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Maybe I misunderstood you then.
Nice to have that sort of friendly discussion environment where it's easy to establish things like that, though, rather than one where people just go straight to seeing red and shouting abuse at each other.

 

[Mickster]

On the other hand, grow the fuck up? Don't get bent, maybe? Take a hard stance, don't take a hard stance. Prove your stance or don't prove your stance. Check back or don't check back. Whatever. Focusing on style over substance just might cause one more aggravation than you might wish to experience. If so, not checking back might be a better option. Saying Miro is a doo doo head and always has been is boring, and irrelevant.

Mick D.....I know you're not saying that anything goes......just take it....I get that. But is there some sort of line you don't think should be crossed when people post or respond on this forum? I'm not even saying it's been crossed here in this thread.....but is there a limit? What do you think?

I'd be curious to hear from others on this forum too.

Mick

 

[Steenamaroo]

Mick's responses to Tae a handful of posts back make a good example for me
A perfectly reasonable...'I don't agree...here's a few reasons why'.

You don't get the impression it's going to be a raging battle until someone breaks or leaves.
Each to their own - I just don't see much value in the latter.

 

[Mick Doobie]

Well, yeah, there is a line. But I also think focusing on where ever that line may be is a pitfall. You're setting your own self up for being offended when your version of that line is crossed.

What I was in part talking about, the "don't check back in".....I'm not pointing fingers, because honestly I can't remember who said it. But earlier in this thread, and possibly on more than one occasion, someone(s) said that the thread was just going around and around, beating a dead horse. Said, we should stop, wait for the experts and scientists give us the facts. And that to a lesser extent is kind of what was happening recently. Hey, if that is your stance, you want to wait until the experts and scientists to tell you conclusive facts, God bless you. If so, this thread might not have much to offer you. There is lots of "what I heard", "in my opinion", etc. Yu may wish to not check back into this thread if that sort of thing bothers you.

But really, we should just drop all of that "crossed the line" stuff. It serves no purpose. That's my opinion.

However! What's up with the "experts" and scientists we're supposed to pledge our unwavering allegiance?

Fauci said on multiple occasions many months back masks for the general public will not prevent the spread of covid. You can wear one if it makes you feel proactive, if it makes you feel good, but will not prevent the spread of covid. Yet, apparently he lied. Let's be kind, he was not being truthful. He is on camera saying it. Check his demeanor, do you see any difference on that occasion than any other time he is giving his expert scientific directives?

Now, recently, he all but admitted he was untruthful. Oh, he had a good excuse for lying. He did not want the general public to deplete a valuable resource for medical personal dealing with the pandemic. Sure, that's a good excuse. But he still lied. We're asked to only trust scientists, specifically this guy. Yet it's proven he lied to us. With a straight face.

And they wonder why trust is an issue. They wonder why conspiracy theories persist.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Pretty sure that was TAE saying, 'wait for the experts' around his 'we just don't know for certain' stance.

We don't know for certain is technically true but wait for the experts is...well

"The news said.." They lie.
"Some politician said.." They lie.
"Some scientist said.." and another one said the exact opposite.
And sometimes they lie.

Seems like irrefutable evidence of anything is getting pretty hard to come by.
Can't fault anyone for keeping an open mind, or just not committing, even if circumstantial evidence of something is overwhelming.

I agree, focussing on where lines should be probably isn't time well spent but often it's pretty obvious what side of it someone's on.

 

[Mickster]

Mick D....I respect your approach not to outline your limits..........and you make a good point on how it might be disappointing for someone to see their limits exceeded. Well said. I guess your advice to take it and move on applies there.

Take it and move on applies to.......everyone. That also includes those who are just giving it. It's not incumbent on those taking it to just take it.

What a mish mash of human nature and frailty. I love this stuff honestly. And for the record........I've not been insulted in this thread.....but have just observed that things were going downhill......snowballing to what was looking like a bad ending.

I'm going to a BBQ now. Hot dogs and burgers and beer. MMMMmmmmmmm!!!! Later !!

 

[Mick Doobie]

Hell yeah! Burgers and beer, sounds good.

I think sometimes it comes down to ego. It's okay to sometimes say even when challenged, I can't prove it, it's my gut feeling, and that's what I am going with.....until at some point I may (or may not) change my mind. We're all just grasping at some truth. A lot of us have known each other for quite a while. We know each other's strengths, weaknesses, and faults. Maybe we can practice a little patience, tolerance and forgiveness. Ain't many of us left here, we brothers.

 

[TAE]

I don't know, man.

If you say it (possibly) started in Spain, and Miro asks for proof of a trail back to China...that's reasonable.

To ask Miro to provide proof of no trail from Spain back to China.....isn't that asking that Miro prove a negative?

I think that shit came from China. As do most people, including (most of) the "experts". Most of that kind of shit comes from China. There's a pattern, and patterns mean something. Personally, I think it needs to be said loud and clear, that shit came out of China. They initially tried to hide it.

Yeah, I heard that on "the news". Was that false reporting? Well, we sort through it, listen and read, and come up with our own opinions based on that. I mean, really, will we ever have a definitive consensus of fact coming from the "news"? Hell no, or probably not. Nearly everything is biased these days.

With regard to the Spain findings....I was VERY clear this was preliminary and that the data was being peer reviewed...time will tell Miro on the other hand didn't imply, he flat out said there was no trail of this virus...so I asked him to back up his words...not possible in the same breathe he turned it and tried to make it seems as though I was 100% saying it came from Spain and to quit blaming China.. Not what I said or implied...just basically saying can you please just STFU with the China conspiracy shit cause we just don't know yet.... ...but whatever.. It's a lot of back n forth and unless you read all the way through...who the fuck wants to do that? and you believe Miro's perspective on me I'm looking like the biased China tree hugger when in fact I'm just saying WE DON'T KNOW and WE ARE GETTING A LOT OF FALSE AND BIASED INFO...just chill and let the experts figure it out and then prognosticate and pontificate to your informed hearts content....

That I do business in China and have a lot of friends and business acquaintances there, does give a broader perspective of what went down there and what is going down there now. They are totally cruisin through this pandemic because they were all over it like a diaper on a babys ass while we blissfully, arrogantly and stupidly went about our more advanced and sophisticated ways of dealing with the virus....I totally call bullshit on the China's lying about the cases and deaths...It is business as usual BECAUSE they played hard ball on controlling it and confining it while we all played patty cake and whined about having to wear a mask in public...lame

China 1.3 billion people......total of 84,000 cases 8 new cases as of today
America 330 million people total of over 3 million cases ....3 months in and 54,000 new cases TODAY!....1 fricking day! so in one day we have more than half of all the cases China has had since January ...

Crazy embarrassing.....and this isn't BS ......My Chinese friends are free to go wherever they want today....all business's are open and the economy is full on...They played hard ball and avoided the catastrophe we are living... we played it soft, warm n fuzzy and are still paying a horrible price for our apathy...and the saga continues...yeah making everyone wear a mask and taking temperatures at all public places and restricting people from travelling is lame ...we showed them.......damn ignorance is bliss...

Oh and to back up those numbers... from worldometer


Read em and weep
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