My bass recordings suck!

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twonky

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the title pretty much sums it up. I have been getting really nominal, at best, recordings of bass guitar for a while now.
Wether it be my bass (Fender P, Fender Jazz thru and Eden 4x10 and 1x18 + Direct, or any combination of those) or other peoples stuff (generally miced cabinet+ direct).

I cannot get a good sound. It usually ends up really muddy and undefined or too thin w/ out very much meat and very clackety.

I am using, at any given time a Mackie 1604 VLZ or a Meek VC6Q, Sometimes i will try running the bass thru a Sans Amp GT1 thu the Meek. It all sounds crappy to me. I am running it all thru an Echo Layla to Samplitude

Sometimes I compress going to "tape" sometimes not, it doesnt matter.

I can understand that bad technique can account for some of my problems w/ some of the younger bands that I record but I have been playing bass as my proimary instrument for like 16 years! I would like to think that my playing technique is quite good.

Can someone please give me some advice other than just living w/ shitty bass sounds?

Bass sounds I like (for reference):

The guy from No Doubt gets a GReat tone recorded
Later Cure stuff
Tony Levin
I also like really rowdy distorted bass as well.

Thanks for any help!

Twonky
 
On the 4x10 i have used a various times:

sm57, Sennheiser MD421, CAD E200, ADK A-51, Shure Beta 52
 
Do you have anyother mics in your bag? We have a peavey 4x10 cab we record out of and we get pretty decent sounds. Where are you placing the mic?
 
hmmm, I got a pair of Earthworks TC30Ks, a 58 and an AKG c (something) Lg dipraghm condenser.

Generally, when I do mic the cabinet I will put the beta 52 on one speaker (usually on the 1x18" if I use that) usually about 1/2 way between the center and the edge of the speaker about 3" off the speaker)

For the 4x10 I will usually put the 57 or 421 in the center of the speaker or at an angle (40 degrees?) from outside of speaker to center.

I really prefer the sound of the amp and the speakers to direct recording. So any advice is super appriciated.

Twonk
 
I think it's a bit weird you think your bass sound is that bad, even if you use a combination of direct and amp. What do u use of EQ'ing?

Don't get to focussed on it! really, it sounds silly but when you are dissatisfied with your bassound, you can frustrate yourself by alwys listening to all those bass sounds and you lose the ability to make decisions.

Try to mix your bass not in solo, but in combination with the others. Especially for bass, sound is in my opinion good when it sits great in the mix, it can even sound crap all alone.

You say you like distorted bass: In the band I play there's also a lot of raw, distorted bass, and I feel it is also my responsibility as a guitar player not to come in his way. When your bass player takes a lot of the frequency spectrum, you don't have to muddy it up with guitars that play full chords or powerchords in the lox and low mid area.
 
Sounds like what you are doing is right. What kind of Eq settings are you using. Can you explain exactly what you are hearing, and what you want to hear?
 
I'm trying, as of very recently, to not solo bass when mixing. I have sound that to help to a degree. I need to practice some more though.

Not much in the way of EQ, I have been, (again) recently, trying to cut lows out of it to get the more mid range sound for definition. I dont know enough about the frequencies which are offending or that there is not enough of to explain in detail.

The bass sounds I mentioned are definitly not right for all the band I record, but generally those bands have bass that really stands out and isnt really boomy or too thick/thin. Of course, they also have prefessional engineers and millions w/ of equipment...hmmm

I guess I just need to experiment more.

But, Jblount or BrettB or any body else has ideas keep em coming.

Thanks
 
What I am hearing generallY is a bass sound that is either:

A. Too muddy, too much low end, can never seem to roll enough off to gain some definition.

B. Has definition but no "meat" when eq'd for more low end sound moves back to muddy territory.

C. can sometimes seem to disapear when full mix is running. I dont think its a volume thing more a tone thing.

What I want to hear is a bass that has its own space and is defined but meaty and thick:

Like Sting in the police meets McCartney meets Simon Gallup(cure) meets the guy from the Jesus Lizard .

Is that too much to ask :)
 
Try to boost the low mids instead. Also make sure that you are using round wound strings with both pickups turned on. Use new strings that sound brighter than old dead ones. Try adding a little bit of distortion to make it growl more. Fender basses in my opinion can be difficult to get roudy tones with but then again I have heard great recordings with P and J basses that just scream. Good luck

clif
 
Back that mic up a foot or three....seriously, try it in the mix. There is no frequency to boost to cut mud...try cutting 300-360hz.
 
could you upload a sample/song with the bassound you have right now?
 
I can't do it quickly, but yes. I have to upload to MP3.com to get it.

Allright so, new strings, gotcha, back the shit off the speaker about 2 feet gotcha- heres a loaded question what could my recording and mixing room have to do w/ it? Other than everything.

I will note that in my "control" room there does seem to always be too much bass on stuff. I have learned to a degree to deal w/ it and not maake my recordings too bass free but....


Thanks for all the advice soo far!

Twonk
 
I cut @ 200hz to get rid of muddiness my bass set up has.Definately new strings.
 
Record a bassline using direct injection- use your mackie board, not the meek. Don't mess with EQ or compression, just a clean bassline.

Burn it onto a cd, then take it to your Hi-Fi, you car, and other acoustic environments.

If it sounds okay in your car, then its probably your control room.

Then try it with a mic- if it sounds worse, its probably your tracking room (my guess)



And FYI, if you use a combo of DI and mic'd, you probably need to delay the DI track a bit to get your signals back in phase.


Cheers :D
Chris
 
My recording partner and I could never make good recordings (always came out sounding way too bass heavy) until we totally changed our control room location and layout.

You might want to get someone over with a frequency analyzer to see how you might make improvements in your listening environment.
 
A few things:

I've used that same Meek as a DI with good results. It's especially handy in that it has a compressor built in. Don't be shy, at least try cranking up the compression.

Combine the DI with a miced sound. When you do this, remember to go in close on the waveforms later and check for phase problems. It's pretty easy to get recorded sounds and direct sounds out of phase with each other. If you look close at the waveforms for a part where the wave pattern is particularly strong, look for any areas where one wave is going up while the other wave is going down. If that's happening, you will have phase issues that will thin the sound out considerably. Nudge the audio a couple samples until the waveforms line up better.

I don't like to cut a lot of bass out of the bass... maybe 3db below 80Hz or so. But that region is going to give you a lot of power, and define all of your guitar tracks. In fact, a few db of low shelf at 200 Hz brings a big bottom end in, and you can still do your highpass/lowcut at 60 or 80 to kill the low end rumble...

Compress, and compress hard. Compression is the reason that Sting's bass never disappears in the Police stuff, and that Paul's fairly round bass tone cuts through every mix. Try 5-20 ms attack, 100-500 ms release, a ratio of 3:1 or higher, and a threshold where pretty much every note is getting squashed. I like a medium or soft knee, if available. Then crank the output.

Notch. I don't do this very often, but sometimes it works to use a fairly sharp notch EQ somewhere in the low end, and cut a bunch, 5-10 dB. Then use another notch to boost the same frequency area on the kick drum... although you probably shouldn't boost it as much.

I've had better luck with condensers than dynamics on bass cabs. I thought the Beta52 would be great for a bass cab, but it wasn't.
 
Wow! This is great advice guys! Thank you very much. I suspect that my problems are kind of a combination of my shitty room and and a fuzzy yet becoming more clear handle on understanding frequencies and compression. I will use all of these suggestions!
Thanks again.

Twonky
 
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