Multitracks/stand alone

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rico
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futurestar said:
Regarding the little complaints here and there you've heard (and I've heard), about the 2488, most should be addressed in the upcoming software update. The only thing ... which is a major one in my books, is eq. I believe having 4 band parametric eq on every strip is one of the most overlooked features on stand alone units by manufacturers. As far as I can see, the Yamaha is the only recorder with this feature in the ballpark price range. That was one of the two main reasons I made the upgrade to pc recording recently ... the other was true 24 bit recording on 24 or more tracks. Tascam has this covered now, but only 3 band eq per strip, and it's fairly weak on effects for mixing.

My opinion, after looking at all the units currently available is this: if you have a decent pc, a software program like N-Tracks, etc, (or better), I'd go with the 2488. If you don't, and need an all in one unit that is portable, I'd say it's a toss up between the Yamaha, Korg and Fostex. (The Korg and Yamaha at the top of my list unless you need 16 ins at once and have an ADAT optical mic pre like the Behringer ADA800). However, if you have Cubase ... the Yamaha would be my top choice. Man ... now you've got ME confused .... and I'm not even looking for a stand alone recorder anymore!! :-)
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sheeit. i think i've ruled out the 2488. some of those complaints don't seem little--like the monitor outs frying away. the user forum is almost depressing... your reply was real helpful though. especially the comment about having processing on each channel and 4-band eq. i'm trying to decide btw the AW16G and D1600mkII. i'm basically trying to figure out if the korg is worth 400 more for what i'm goin for. usb would be nice, as would a twice as big HD and double the XLR ins. but i've heard so many consistently good things on the yamaha...i might be working up to starting a korg d1600 thread unless i find something by searching the board

too bad guitar center keeps the multitrackers securely fastened under metal to some kind of alloy display table...i might actually be able to examine them if they didn't do that...
 
If you're looking for support, the Korg D1600 forums are awesome:
http://www.korgstudios.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=7
Personally, I would suggest mixing in a pc if you can, which makes the Korg very appealing. Re: the 2488, I didn't realize that they are having so many problems. (I haven't checked out the Tascam Forums in a while). I've owned a Korg D16 for about three years, and a D8 before that, so I'm a little biased towards their products. Anyway, go with your gut on what you feel you need - the Yamaha looks like a great unit for the price, and so does the Fostex. It's a tough call ...
 
Actually, you could argue it's an easy call because you won't really go wrong with any of them. I know it's fashionable to slag off big business and all that, but what these things deliver for the money is just fantastic. Well, once you've climbed the learning curve a little, it is:)
 
Im back

Wow! Thanks for all the input everyone. I bought the 2488 on July 3rd and after working with it, I must say that I am not totall convinced I have the right machine for me. There are a few things that bug me. That screen sucks. Too small. I really wish they could have made it so you could plug in your own monitor to see whats going on. Placing the trim pot designations (A-H) behind the knob is a bad design. You have to stand up and look behind it. Sounds petty doesn't it, but it does bother me, Okay enough on aesthetics. Whats up with only being able to use 1 FX at a time. You better like that reverb sound. Okay I know you can record the FX when you record the track but that limits your mixing possibilities. Whats up with those Guitar FX, that distortion is "cheeseball". I know I'll usually be micing my amps but it's nice to have an option at 2 AM when your inspired and don't want to wake anyone up. Maybe I haven't spent enough time with it, no I'm sure I have not, but I do have another week to decide to return it and try the Fostex 160EX. My previous 2 analog machines were Fostex. I feel the Fostex calling and if after 3 weeks that doesn't do it for me, I'll try the Yamaha 16G.
 
Rico said:
Wow! Thanks for all the input everyone. I bought the 2488 on July 3rd and after working with it, I must say that I am not totall convinced I have the right machine for me. There are a few things that bug me. That screen sucks. Too small. Maybe I haven't spent enough time with it, no I'm sure I have not, but I do have another week to decide to return it and try the Fostex 160EX. My previous 2 analog machines were Fostex. I feel the Fostex calling and if after 3 weeks that doesn't do it for me, I'll try the Yamaha 16G.
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Well I own and love the VF160, but the screen is also small. To me, it's perfectly adequate, and I do A LOT of editing. Still... if screen size is a bother then go with the Yamaha aw16g or a Korg 1600mkII. The thing about the VF160 is, at $899. it leaves you with some cash with which to get a pair of Studio Project B1 condensors, or one Rode NT1a.

I've got a ton of 16bit recordings I'll never be able to match on any machine, so 24bit doesn't mean a great deal to me, and the Fostex is rock solid. It's operating system is excellent, with no need to save/defrag. For effects, you can use two at a time, at mixdown, or permanently add an effect or two, or ten, to a track via bounce. But I think most people would say the Yamaha/Korg effects are better. Plus the Yamaha gives you 4band parametric eq. The Korg screen and menu is also touch activated.

The best thing about the FOSTEX/YAMAHA/KORG models are that they are all very well known, and at least for the Fostex have few if any known bugs. The TASCAM is a whole new machine and is going to have some teething issues. I think a look at their support site shows that.

Still and all, barring serious defects, I wonder if you should just stay with the TASCAM and learn workarounds that are par for the course on any machine... If you like the operating system and the sound quality, should should be able to make some great 24 track/24bit recordings!
 
hmmmmm

Thanks Billisa. Sounds like you know what you are talking about. I figure I have until August 2nd to decide if I'm going to return it or not. I'll work with it a little more this week. The weird thing about the Fostex VF160EX unit is that I cannot find one and I live in L.A. not Tierra Del Fuego (no offense to those who do) I went to Guitar Center to check one out and they didn't have any VF160's and then told me that since Fostex products are becoming inferior to the other companies that they are carrying less and less Fostex products. Then today during my lunch break I went to West L.A. Music and they told me that Fostex is stopping production on multitracks. What's up with that? I should email Fostex about these clowns. One guy at Guitar Center was really pushing that Korg 1600mkII unit. Saying what a user friendly, great sounding machine it was. I just don't trust salesmen at music stores anymore. It's like who do you believe? I just want to get back into making music and less into all the "techy" stuff.
 
The guitar distortion on the Yammie is also dreadful. It's asking too much of any of these boxes to go that far, I think. I'm feeling rather sheepish about saying you couldn't go wrong with any of them - I meant for reliable plain vanilla recording, flexibility and general usefulness. If you want good effects you'll have to look elsewhere, although somebody with good ears and experiecen would do a better master an my AW16G standalone than I achieve with all the PC plug in complexity!
 
Rico said:
I went to Guitar Center to check one out and they didn't have any VF160's and then told me that since Fostex products are becoming inferior to the other companies that they are carrying less and less Fostex products. Then today during my lunch break I went to West L.A. Music and they told me that Fostex is stopping production on multitracks. I just don't trust salesmen at music stores anymore. It's like who do you believe? /QUOTE]

I've been told more wrong things at GC than I care to count. The feel and performance of a VF160 stacks up very favorably to the Korg 1600mkII, and in my view, completely outclasses the 1200mkII that still costs $200 more than the Fostex. The Fostex DV24LV has a great reputation, but you won't find one at GC, nor will you often find a Mackie 24 HardDisk at GC.

Is Fostex stopping production on multi-tracks? It wouldn't surprise me, because PC's are obviously the long-term way forward. But if Fostex is stopping production, how long will Roland, Korg, Tascam, continue?

The Fostex PM series monitors are excellent -- great for the money -- Fostex has been making speaker drivers for 50 years. Their high-end audio drivers are very well thought of... You won't find Fostex monitors at GC. Fostex is not the size company that TASCAM or others are, so I would imagine volume/pricing is more the issue than quality.

Look at the other brands of merchandise that GC carries. Are they all known for superb quality? Ah, no.

If it was me, I'd call Fostex in CA and see what they say. Though even if I knew that tomorrow they were discontinuing their newly released VF160EX, I'd still buy one. They're excellent. There are people who love the old Fostex reel-to-reel machines. They haven't been made in years.
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such a useful thread...i will have to second the guitar center misinformation theme--those dumbasses have told me some crazy info, like how nobody makes ribbon mics anymore. I'm sure there are some GC employees on this board. But GC seriously needs to clean up their act. they have great selection and everything, but it's like not knowing stuff is a requirement to work there.

This fostex discontinuing the multitracks is a bummer if it's true--I have basically narrowed it down to the 1600mkII or the VF160ex. but billisa you're seriously making me lean toward the fostex. and my friend has been using the MR8 for a year and his recordings are pretty amazing for that tiny $300 box. and if i ever have any adat lightpipe action, well, there's 16 simultaneous true tracks...

one thing i'm wondering--someone mentioned how the fostex records as you go. Do the korg and yamaha aw16 not do this? i am only familiar with reel to reels, adat, and cassette 4-tracks and not the HD digital recording process. If I just want to record 15 mins of song ideas (guitar and vocals), are these machines (besides the fostex) going to launch into some kind of weird formatting or save process the moment i push the stop button?
 
I have an older Korg D16, but can tell you that all their models have "auto save" written into the software. In other words, as long as you don't pull the power cord out of the wall to turn it off, everything you've recorded will be saved automatically. I have to say that my Korg (and many other Korg users @ www.korgstudios.com can attest), has been trouble free (knock on wood) and very easy to use - for about three years now since buying it used. No crashes, etc. All in all, a very simple to operate, stable unit. I'm sure the Fostex is also very stable, and have used their reel to reels in the past. It really depends on what you need.
 
bubbleboy said:
such a useful thread...

one thing i'm wondering--someone mentioned how the fostex records as you go. Do the korg and yamaha aw16 not do this? i am only familiar with reel to reels, adat, and cassette 4-tracks and not the HD digital recording process. If I just want to record 15 mins of song ideas (guitar and vocals), are these machines (besides the fostex) going to launch into some kind of weird formatting or save process the moment i push the stop button?
Click to expand...

The Fostex was designed to function similar to analogue tape in that there's no "save" function you have to select -- it permanently saves as you go. So, in the unlikely event of a system freeze, everything you've done up to that point is still there when you do a restart. I believe on some other machines, save, optimize, defrag operations have to be engaged manually.

However, I wouldn't not buy a Korg because of this... The D1600MKII looks great and the user interface via the screen seems excellent. The screen is large and tiltable. Plus, you get 4 XLR ins to the VF160's 2. Check if the Korg uses a cooling fan. The VF160 does not, and this makes it a very quiet machine. Everything I've owned by Korg seems very well made. I'd imagine their manual is far better than Fostex's, which isn't written in the most intelligible way... Plus, Korg phone support is very good. Matt at Fostex is nice and helpful, but he's only one guy. I've only had basic questions for him, no tech problems, but one gets the impression that Korg has dozens of people in tech support... not just one.

If I'd been able to spend $1300 I might have jumped from a Fostex VF80 (that I also loved), to the Korg.

Check out the Korg support forum Korgstudios.com I believe. Read through the posts regarding the 1600...

Isn't this a tough decision?
 
2488 First mix n burn

Well, this morning I mixed and decided to burn onto a CD this song that I had been working on from the 2488. I must say that it sounds pretty darn clean in my car. Now granted I did not go wild on the production and load it up with FX, but then again sometimes those are the best mixes for the kind of music I'm doing. For a first mix I am very pleased with the results and know that things can only get better with more knowledge on the use of the machine. I mean I've just touched the tip of the iceberg here. I would still like to see that Fostex VF160 up close and personal. I've only seen it on my computer screen. I'll try to track one down here over the weekend in L.A just to satisfy my curiosity. I did end up writing an email to Fostex regarding what the "hose heads" at the music stores told me but have not heard a response. BTW, they need to update their info on authorized dealers in Los Angeles. A few of the stores they mentioned (e.g. Ace Music) have beed closed for years and there is no mention of Guitar Center as an authorized dealer even though they do carry that MR8 machine.
 
By the way, just to mention that, IMHO. auto-save is not the better approach for everyone. Personally, I don't like to save everything I do, which frees me up to take chances. Many times, I've experimented for an hour with different sorts of interesting and sometimes wild approaches on my Yamaha 16g--some I've decided later to save, but some I've decided to wipe clean by deliberately shutting down without saving. I really appreciate this option. I guess it all depends on how you like to work and what helps you to feel most creative--another example of how no one approach works best for everyone.

Of course, I do believe firmly in regularly backing up my saved files, though.

Best,

J.
 
dude...hopefully I won't get flames. But I highly recommend you look at an AKAI unit. Why?

Well...truthfully, all of these multi-track companies offer the same thing for about the same price. To me, the difference is in what extra things the company offers you. I will tell you that AKAI Product Support is probably THE best I have ever dealt with. TASCAM, however, is probably THE worst I have ever dealt with.

So if you want to get a TASCAM or a Yamaha, that's kewl. Just pray that you don't have problems or the unit doesn't suddenly malfunction.....cuz then you will be in Product Support/Customer Service hell like I was. Which is why I never buy Tascam. But I will buy AKAI, even if it isn't the most popular product, simply because I know that if I run into problems, they will help me more then adequately.

Just my dos centavos on the matter
 
Akai?

~Cycosuicide,
Yeah those tascam support dudes aren't very supportive. Borderline cocky. They would rather direct you to the tascamforums web site then to have to deal w you. The Fostex support is pretty lame too. Just try to actually talk to someone, it's almost impossible. I ended up leaving a message last week for someone to call me back and no one has yet done so. I even gave them my toll free number. BTW, no one, but no music shop in L.A. carries that FostexVF160EX, so I have still yet to see this machine up close and personal. I know it's a fairly new machine but come on someone in this polluted city must have one. Heck, there's a Fostex headquarters nearby in Norwalk. I called every authorized dealer in L.A. within a 50 mile radius and no one has one. Guitar Center did say they could order one, but it would take a couple of weeks. That's pathetic. It couldn't be that great of a machine.
So, which Akai machine do you recommend within this price reange? I must say I did not even consider Akai.
 
i finally took a look at the tascam 2488 and think the build quality is below the korg and yamaha in my opinion, especially the faders, which are the flimsiest i have yet to see. seriously, it seemed like you could break them off just taking it out of a bag

but i share your frustration--i can't find anyone with a VF160ex. i'm tempted just to order it. musiciansfriend has it in stock...
 
bubbleboy said:
i finally took a look at the tascam 2488 and think the build quality is below the korg and yamaha in my opinion, especially the faders, which are the flimsiest i have yet to see. seriously, it seemed like you could break them off just taking it out of a bag

but i share your frustration--i can't find anyone with a VF160ex. i'm tempted just to order it. musiciansfriend has it in stock...
Click to expand...

The Faders on the Fostex feel just as nice, if not nicer than the Korg. They are 60mm in travel, whereas the TASCAMS only go 45mm.

Musicians Friend and 8th Street Music and zZounds all have them in stock (to my knowledge...
 
Rico said:
~BTW, no one, but no music shop in L.A. carries that FostexVF160EX. Guitar Center did say they could order one, but it would take a couple of weeks. That's pathetic. It couldn't be that great of a machine.
So, which Akai machine do you recommend within this price reange? I must say I did not even consider Akai.
Click to expand...


Actually, it is that great of a machine. Akai's also have a fine rep. But good luck finding one on a display shelf. I haven't seen one in 2 different Guitar Centers or 2 different Sam Ash's, ever, over a period of years... Never. I believe it's more of a volume/price margin issue. You can find plenty of Boss products, never Akai, and outside of the MR8, rarely a Fostex.

Akai will be more $$. In the event you're willing to go as high as $2,000, then you may also want to consider a Korg XD16 (I believe that's the model). Beautiful looking machine with great feel, and lots of ability.
 
El Fostex

Billisa,
I can tell you really like that Fostex VF160EX, but I might as well be looking for the "grail" while I'm at it. Okay, that might be a little bit too dramatic. I know I too can order online, it's just that I would really like to see it up close first.
My last two recorders were Fostex and I've never been disappointed. I can still return the 2488 to GC and have them order the Fostex unit. If I absolutley hate that, I'll return it and go back to the 2488. Man, I'm a pain in the ass.
What do you think I would be able to buy the VF160Ex for out the door w tax? It seems like no one likes to say what they pay for things on these forums, but hey thats one way of helping each other out, right?
 
Rico said:
What do you think I would be able to buy the VF160Ex for out the door w tax? It seems like no one likes to say what they pay for things on these forums, but hey thats one way of helping each other out, right?
Click to expand...

The advertised price is $899.00 If you buy it mailorder, there's no tax, just shipping.
 
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