MS16 Calabration

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ron-e-g

ron-e-g

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I've read lots of articles on this procedure. Including the DIY article in the sticky in this forum. I have learned, I probably need a duel trace and two channel oscilloscope. some kind of dedicated oscillator, and probably an AF meter according to the MS16 manual. And of course an alignment tape, meant for the speed of my recorder.

What I haven't seen though, How these units are actually connected to a recorder. In my case I would probably want to connect through the RCA jacks. But, the scopes I see have probes! Then... there is how do I connect the AF meter, and the scope with the recorder all at the same time?

The manual is very vague on this. Any help on this greatly appreciated!

Ron
 
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ron-e-g said:
I've read lots of articles on this procedure. Including the DIY article in the sticky in this forum. I have learned, I probably need a duel trace and two channel oscilloscope. some kind of dedicated oscillator, and probably an AF meter according to the MS16 manual. And of course an alignment meant for the speed of my recorder.

What I haven't seen though, How these units are actually connected to a recorder. In my case I would probably want to connect through the RCA jacks. But, the scopes I see have probes! Then... there is how do I connect the AF meter, and the scope with the recorder all at the same time?

The manual is very vague on this. Any help on this greatly appreciated!

Ron
Click to expand...

You need a BNC to RCA cable. Something like this:

Hosa BNR-106 6-Feet 75-Ohm COAX BNC to RCA Cable:Amazon:Musical Instruments

Did you get the MS16 from Georgia ? How was it ? Post pics
 
Thanks for that fgonza2, Nope, mine came from here in CA. That will work for the basic scope to recorder. But, How do I do this?

test set-up.webp

Or this?test set-up1.webp
 
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get some RCA Y splitters - Amazon.

where in CA are you? i am in norcal
 
fgonza2,
Are you saying everything after the scope is RCA? Or do I have to first purchase each test piece, then determine what is needed? I see some pictures posted where alligator clips are used.
 
Scope: BNC

Recorder inputs and outputs: RCA

AF meter: Ideal one is the Leader 181 (get it on ebay for less than $50) it is a true RM AC millivoltmeter. A regular DVM will NOT work here. That has both banana plugs and a "UHF" connector. you can use a UHF to RCA adapter. Avoid the banana, clips plugs, you want to use shielded cable. For those signal levels, if you dont go with shielded cable, the noise is significant, and it will impact your measurements.

That should do it,

Felipe
 
Thanks fgonza2.

Think I'll start with the scope and worry about the rest when I get there.

One thing though. I've been wondering... if I really need a dedicated oscillator, when I already have one on the M600.
 
you can use an iPhone app as an oscillator through the console. You need a "true RMS" meter for calibrating levels, that has to be very accurate, you can measure levels in the scope, remember that Vrms= a/Sqrt(2) - where "a" is the amplitude in the scope. A regular AC meter will not work for this.
 
I was thinking about calibrating mine myself but I decided against it in the end. The stuff you need to do it (Tentelometer, test tape, spring gauges, distortion meter, oscilloscope, function generator, level meter etc.) adds up to a ridiculous amount of money. Considering that and also that I had zero experience doing it, I decided toget it done professionally. I'm having it done in the next week or so, hopefully it all goes well!
 
What would be the best oscilloscope to get. I'm not sure of the ratings would a 20MHz be OK? And if I decide on one and it has no probes, do the probes have to match the MHz exactly?

Ron
 
what is your budget ?. too many options. how familiar are you with electronics and instrumentation. IS this somethign that you watn to learn how to do in the long run or this one time ? it maybe a significant investment ($200-$800) range. I would also get a Leader LMV181 ac millivoltmeter as a trueRMS meter. Those go for ~$50 on ebay these days.
 
You don't need to go above 20MHz for the 'scope. Audio frequency is up to about 20KHz, and even the bias oscillator is probably only in the 150KHz range. Unless you're going to study the microprocessor clock or something, you won't need more than 20.
 
fgonga2, I want to learn the "art" of calibration of analog recorders. My budget is so as to get what is quality and necessary, but not more than what is needed. If 20 MHz is enough that's good enough for me as they are cheaper. But if 100 MHZ is better for possible future calibrations, then I'd rather bite the bullet now.

It's frustrating on ebay as either they seem to be good units w/o probes or they have probed and look "beat" or the owner knows nothing about the condition ,or they have no manual or....

If I could narrow down the actual minimum specs needed then I could concentrate on that type of oscilloscope.

The manual list the test equipment required but names some as " general purpose" good for those who know what that means...not me at this point.

I'm a "hands on" kind of guy.

jpmorris,

Thanks for the info. I read somewhere the 20MHZ might be too slow. So that information helps me a lot to narrow down my search criteria.

Ron
 
a 20Mhz scope is enough, you wont need more than that for tape recorder electronics work. As jpmorris said, you wont find a signal of more than 200Khz in a tape recorder, so you are way far. 20Mhz is probably the lowest bandwidth scope that you can find (relatively modern ones) You need to learn how to use it, (triggers, timebase, etc) not hard, but make sure to fully understand that. I also recommend the TrueRMS meter, that is critical as well, as i mentioned the LMV181 is a very good low cost option. ABout the probes, you can buy them as well for ~$15 each or so. You need to make sure the scope is calibrated, and the probes are compensated. The probe compensation is easy as it is done usually with the 1khz reference signal that the scope comes with. But the scope calibration is something that you need to have a technician do or buy one that has been calibrated not too long ago. That is not something that you can easily do yourself. Newer scopes calibrate themselves, but are more expensive as well. Google: oscilloscope buying guide - to give you some ideas.
 
Thanks for all that fgonza2. I'm still hunting on ebay. I'll let you know how it goes. I picked up a Leader LFM -3610 Wow and Flutter meter for $2.00!

Ron
 
I've got a Leader 181. I'm not sure of the connections. The input looks to be a UHF. Would I use a UHF to female RCA? The other input I don't know what it is, or what it's for. The output is banana type, so for that would I use a banana to RCA female?

Ron
 
Just use the UHF to RCA. No need to connect the output to anything
 
I've just had my MS16 set up by Clive Kavan. It has made a difference to the sound and I can thoroughly recommend his services to anyone who wants their machine calibrated professionally.
 
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