Monitoring tape compression

  • Thread starter Thread starter walters
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walters said:
I'm trying to monitor out of the line output in REAL TIME with no delay time so i can hear what im recording onto tape as its being recorded as the monitor line outs would have to be after the playback head i want to monitor the recorded audio on tape in REAL TIME how ?
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Quantum travel. You do this by grabbing the pitch control and applying a 200v current, through bananna clips, clipped to your right and left nipples.
 
I think i should be monitoring off the tape outputs i think this is the problem right? and not monitor off the line outputs or monitor outputs it should be the tape outputs right?
 
walters said:
I think i should be monitoring off the tape outputs i think this is the problem right? and not monitor off the line outputs or monitor outputs it should be the tape outputs right?
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As far as I'm concerned it's all right, walters, as long as your outpatient monitoring device functioning well.
 
The Ghost of FM said:
Usable tape compression only takes place when you're using an open reel deck that's running without noise reduction and you're driving the tape at levels that would have the meters pegged.

The whole idea behind this is to record at levels where the tape is running out of room to store anything louder then it's maximum output level (or, MOL for short, ) and it is at that point where the limit is reached that the tape compression effect starts to take place.

Using noise reduction devices like dbx prevent the signal from getting to that point on the tape and then processing distortion is all that gets captured and that's not the effect we're looking for here as that kind of result is high in IM distortion which is not pretty or musical sounding, unlike harmonic distortion which is.

It's also impossible to monitor off the play head and overdub at the same time as everything is going to get messed up from the time delay between the sync and the repro head. You can only hear this effect after the fact while overdubbing.

If all you own is cassette recording equipment, don't even bother with trying to achieve this effect because you'll induce electronic ugly distortion before the tape reaches its MOL happy point where it self compresses.

Cheers! :)
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Cassette will self compress. It wont be quite the same effect as a reel tape at say 15ips but it definitely wont electronically overload before the tape does, at least not on a properly designed cassette deck.
Manufacturers of both cassette and reel machines made sure tape saturation happened before record circuit clipping.
With ordinary cassettes, because the highs were boosted heavily they saturated before the rest of the spectrum, whereas with a reel tape at 15ips, it's closer to saturating at all frequencies at about the same level.
I think that's the reason a cassette overloading the tape sounds different to a reel tape.
But the sound you hear on a cassette is definitely not electronic overload unless it's a real cheap and nasty machine.
Tim
 
thanks Tim Gillett for the information

So how do u saturate the tape before overload without distorting the input stage using a limiter to prevert distortion to the preamp trimmer on the reel to reel recording deck but there is that extra headroom for the tape before it goes into saturation and gets that compression sound how do i reach this without distortion or overloading the circuit of the deck??
 
Tim Gillett said:
Cassette will self compress. It wont be quite the same effect as a reel tape at say 15ips but it definitely wont electronically overload before the tape does, at least not on a properly designed cassette deck.
Manufacturers of both cassette and reel machines made sure tape saturation happened before record circuit clipping.
With ordinary cassettes, because the highs were boosted heavily they saturated before the rest of the spectrum, whereas with a reel tape at 15ips, it's closer to saturating at all frequencies at about the same level.
I think that's the reason a cassette overloading the tape sounds different to a reel tape.
But the sound you hear on a cassette is definitely not electronic overload unless it's a real cheap and nasty machine.
Tim
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The very first word in my post was the word, "usable".

Cassette tape compression is not "usable", in my opinion.

The other factors that lead me to that conclusion are based on the fact that most people on this forum, using cassette based portastudios are using dbx noise reduction and you have to turn that off to attempt tape compression effects on your recordings. Many portastudio machines offer no bypass option on individual tracks and some only on all of the tracks in one fell swoop which is also not generally a great idea at slower cassette tape running speeds.

Ordinarily, I'd go into more details but this is a walters thread...I hope you'll forgive me. :D

Cheers! :)
 
What does the noise reduction do to the audio waveform? it limits the waveform swing? it puts a top and bottom threshold levels ?

The echoplex doesn't have noise reduction so recording on a echoplex can get some tape compression and tape saturation right?

What about Tape head compression or tape head saturations?
 
ofajen said:
See! I knew it! Now... could the two of you take this offline? :)

Otto
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You know nothing. :rolleyes:

Take yourself off-line. :p

Cheers! :)
 
walters said:
thanks Tim Gillett for the information

So how do u saturate the tape before overload without distorting the input stage using a limiter to prevert distortion to the preamp trimmer on the reel to reel recording deck but there is that extra headroom for the tape before it goes into saturation and gets that compression sound how do i reach this without distortion or overloading the circuit of the deck??
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I told you. The tape will saturate just by recording well into the "red" on the machine's meter. The VU meter is your "tape saturation" meter, if you like. Dont worry. Be grateful. The manufacturer has done the hard yards for you.

Cheers Tim
 
The Ghost of FM said:
The very first word in my post was the word, "usable".

Cassette tape compression is not "usable", in my opinion.

The other factors that lead me to that conclusion are based on the fact that most people on this forum, using cassette based portastudios are using dbx noise reduction and you have to turn that off to attempt tape compression effects on your recordings. Many portastudio machines offer no bypass option on individual tracks and some only on all of the tracks in one fell swoop which is also not generally a great idea at slower cassette tape running speeds.

Ordinarily, I'd go into more details but this is a walters thread...I hope you'll forgive me. :D

Cheers! :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification. Nothing to forgive: I understand the "situation" Tim. :)
 
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