Modded Oktava vs u47

promesis said:
.. um ok. let's see.. :

well, I have never raped a child..

I hate child rapists..

That makes me ignorant..? hmm.
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I object to the use of crass sensationalism that couldn't get further away from the point or the "purely academic" debate you claim to want simply to vilify my point of view.

I'm necessarily not saying "go buy an Oktavamod," why not just comment on the clips that are there?

Look-- I have nothing personal against you man. But bottom line, what do you or Chess have against people posting testimonials of these mics that the love?
 
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For anyone who missed it, I'd hate to let what's happening here between Chessrock, myself and Promesis get in the way of people making their own decisions based on our inability to get along :rolleyes:

MichaelJoly said:
A number of my clients have been so impressed with their OktavaMod mics vs. their Neumann mics they've sent comparison samples. I don't control the test methodology of people using my mics - I just try to make people happy with my work.

To make it easy to listen to some of the shoot outs OktavaMod has been involved in, I've collected a few here. Folks can decide if they want to talk about what they hear, or if they want to debate audio test methodology.


U47 FET / OktavaMod MK-319 Floating Dome PE

Male singing voice & acoustic guitar recorded by Rick Asher Keefer at Sea-West Studios, Hawaii. Single take, one track per mic, mics separated 4" at mouth level angled slightly downward and inward. Rick said "The two mics are VERY Close ... And Klaus Heyne really worked hard to get my U47 FET to sound BEAUTIFUL".

U47FET
MK319DPE


U48 / MKL-2500 Blind Test
Which is the Neumann U48, the OktavaMod MKL-2500 cathode follower and the OktavaMod MKL-2500 plate load mic?

Vocal 1 / Vocal 2 / Vocal 3


Neumann M149 vs. OktavaMod MK-219 PE

Jitendra Ramprakash, New Delhi-based voice-trainer & poet, recites an excerpt from the 20th century Indian classic 'Andhere Mein' ("In The Dark")

Male speaking voice, Neumann M149
Male speaking voice, OktavaMod MK-219 PE


Neumann-Gefell UM57 vs. OktavaMod MK-319

From the Czech Republic, OktavaMod client Lukas Hajek sent an A / B test of his Neumann-Gefell UM57 and his MK-319 PE mic. The UM57, introduced in 1957, was a multi-pattern vacuum tube mic manufactured by the Eastern branch of the Neumann family. It uses the Neumann M7 capsule with PVC diaphragm.

Neumann-Gefell UM57 - male vocal

OktavaMod MK-319 Floating Dome PE - male vocal

Neumann-Gefell UM57 - male speech

OktavaMod MK-319 Floating Dome PE - male speech


(3) U47 mics, Lawson L47, Wunder Audio CM7, AKG C414B/XLS & OktavaMod MK-219 w Premium Electronics

http://www.recordwithbarron.com/new-47-mic-shootout/
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Here is my two cents -

99.99% of home recorders have way bigger problems other than the difference between a U47 and a modded Octava. They law of diminishing returns applies heavily to pro audio gear. If you listen to those samples, the highs are completely different from the octava samples to the Neumann samples. There is no silky smooth sheen. Is it a major difference? Especially to a musician that has 20 years of LOUD band practices on their ears? Is it worth 100 times the price? Not for too many people. Not too many at all. However, that does not make the mics equal. Sorry, it just don't.........
 
Yeah, in the U48 / MKL-2500 shoot-out above the order is:

Vocal 1 = Neumann U48
Vocal 2 = OktavaMod MKL-2500 plate load circuit
Vocal 3 = OktavaMod MKL-2500 cathode follower circuit.

When I first posted this on my site last November I had an accompanying poll, at Yahoo! I think. The 2500 cathode follower was chosen about 58% of the time by people who thought they were voting for the U48.
 
MichaelJoly said:
Yeah, in the U48 / MKL-2500 shoot-out above the order is:

Vocal 1 = Neumann U48
Vocal 2 = OktavaMod MKL-2500 plate load circuit
Vocal 3 = OktavaMod MKL-2500 cathode follower circuit.

When I first posted this on my site last November I had an accompanying poll, at Yahoo! I think. The 2500 cathode follower was chosen about 58% of the time by people who thought they were voting for the U48.
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Well, you fooled me. The sample was far from the greatest though. What's with the cars in the background?

The cathode follower sounds much better to my ears than the plate load FWIW.
 
kojdogg said:
Criticizing something you've never tried simply for the sake of hating on it, is just plain ignorant by the very literal definition of the word.
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I agree with that.

Look, if someone told me their kid was the smartest kid in the world, and they had all kinds of report cards to prove it ... I'm not hating on the kid if I'm being skeptical of their claims. Especially considering the source.

I could tell you that I'm a very well-loved and popular poster / member on this board, and I would have scores and scores of positive rep posts and comments to lend evidence to that argument.

... If I only chose to show you the ones I wanted to show you. :D

.
 
NL5 said:
Vocal three is the Neumann. Terrible shootout though.........
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:D I kept thinking that guy would make a really, really good Broadway producer ;)

I've never even seen a Neumann; I don't have much money and I don't get around much :o but I had picked #1 as the better, mainly because it had a nicer promixity effect, and took to EQ to fix the guy's voice really well. But I had no idea which was the Neumann. In fact I was debating whether #3 would be the Neumann or the cathode follower because the level was 1.5dB hotter, but I didn't really know how much difference the circuit would make. The response was similar for #2 and #3, so if pressed I would have guessed they were the same capsule, but that would have just been a lucky guess.
 
NL5 said:
Here is my two cents -

99.99% of home recorders have way bigger problems other than the difference between a U47 and a modded Octava. They law of diminishing returns applies heavily to pro audio gear. If you listen to those samples, the highs are completely different from the octava samples to the Neumann samples. There is no silky smooth sheen. Is it a major difference? Especially to a musician that has 20 years of LOUD band practices on their ears? Is it worth 100 times the price? Not for too many people. Not too many at all. However, that does not make the mics equal. Sorry, it just don't.........
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Great post. Sums it up nicely.

FWIW, I'm surprised about all the heated discussions around the MK219/319.

IMO, the MC012 is a much nicer mic, and has always sounded way better to me than my MK319's ever did on the exact same sources - including vocals. I have a few higher-end mics. My MC012's still have a use around them. The 319's have been sold.

Edit - I did not mean to get off-topic. I amost sent my 319's to M. Joly out of curiousity. He seems like a good guy who knows his stuff. I think the modded 219/319 samples sound better than the stock mics, but I always preferred the higher-end mics in the samples.
 
leddy said:
FWIW, I'm surprised about all the heated discussions around the MK219/319.
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Not really heated "discussions." Just chessnut's trolling and responses to it.

FWIW, he's done the same to other knowledgeable folks who have posted here in the past at HR - Alan Hyatt, Stephen Paul and Harvey Gerst come to mind - and has contributed to their leaving the board for periods of time.

The best response to his trolls is to ignore them, as Michael Joly has done.

For a little more insight, go here:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=246300
 
The only thing worse than a troll ... is the one who knowingly baits the troll.

And you, Crazydoc, are one of the most notorious troll-baiters in the land.

Here, Troll. Yea, you, big fellah? Want to come out and play?

But I ain't havin' it.

Everything I've said in this thread has been perfectly reasonable and level-headed. Valid points that should be duly-noted, whether or not you agree with them or find them valuable. If you can point to specific faults with any of my statements, then by all means, make your best argument. Otherwise, you're just baiting, dude. As usual.

.
 
Ok, someones gotta say it....... wait for it........ Does that make him a master baiter?

I find it supprising that this thread has gone past the first page, the sheer notion seems on it's face, laughable. But then, I'm an Oktava fan and user, so I'm happy it warrents this much consideration. After all, for most budget mics, this would have been over before it started.

Oh, and I'm so happy to have Frasier and Niles other brother Promesis here in the forums.
 
The Russian built mics in general are well built mics with great capsules (unlike many Chinese capsules). It is no surprise that when modded they sound very good. The U47 was built many years ago and I would not be very surprised if the build quality of the capsule was on par with the Russion ones.

The cost of the U47 today is only horrific because of the collectors who have raised the used market beyond the average home studio's budget. Not all
U47s sound good or even passible due to the age of the mics. Many were not refurbished at all. I would have to know the origin of any U47 to have a fair comparison to any other mic (even another U47).

These types of comparisons are just plain silly and only used for marketing glory. You can't compare a '57 strat to a '07 strat on playability alone. The
'57 has far more value in certain markets because of availability, condition, has all the hang-tags, original accessories/case etc.

I like Oktava mics and have a bunch of them. The modded mics should be held to a standard of excellence onto themselves. It does absolutely no good to compare them to a U47, or even a U87 because 99% of home recorders will never use either ever.

And, lastly. it is in the mix that great mics,pre-amps etc. show their worth. There are plenty of Chinese mics that record single tracks as good as any mic in any pricerange, but in the mix they lose quite a bit.
 
MCI2424 said:
These types of comparisons are just plain silly and only used for marketing glory. You can't compare a '57 strat to a '07 strat on playability alone.

I like Oktava mics and have a bunch of them. The modded mics should be held to a standard of excellence onto themselves. It does absolutely no good to compare them to a U47, or even a U87 because 99% of home recorders will never use either ever.

And, lastly. it is in the mix that great mics, pre-amps etc. show their worth. There are plenty of Chinese mics that record single tracks as good as any mic in any price range, but in the mix they lose quite a bit.
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Totally rational thought - thanks! This reasonable perspective does not descend from a desire to be "mood poopers" or trolling or whatever your vernacular requires. A shoot-out between the mods vs. unmods would be more helpful (or just add the un-mods as a control in the original collection of shoot-out clips .. this would conform to the necessary "marketing" needs of OktavaMod Evangelicalism and satisfy those of us whom just want to know how much better it sounds). Like, what's the object of the exercise there: "hey what should I buy, a modded Oktava or a U47?".. :p or "should I get my mic modded"? :cool:

I have a pair of original MC 012-01 .. sitting right here .. possibly waiting to be candidates for the PE upgrades - not because they will sound just as good as a U47 or U87 .. but because I may reasonably expect they will be, at most, $79 better.
 
It is true most home recordists are unlikely to have a U47 or even a U87 in their studios.

But many people write to me and describe their home studio mic needs by expressing a desire to get something like the sound they've gotten when they used Neumann mics in professional studios. For these people - musicians and engineers looking for affordable microphones that have a timbral resemblance to the "Neumann voicing" - shootouts between OktavaMod mics and Neumann mics are valuable.

Other people have written who have never used one of the iconic Neumann microphones. But they too are interested in knowing how an OktavaMod performs relative to these icons. For these people, shootouts between OktavaMod mics and Neumann mics are valuable.

For people who just want to hear how my OktavaMod process improves a stock mic, I have very carefully recorded before / after mod acoustic guitar samples at my site: http://www.oktavamod.com/audio.html (second test from the bottom of the page).

But as I've said before, I'm not running a shoot-out business. I'm busy improving microphones to enhance the recording experiences of my clients. I'm thankful that clients do take the time to make and share their A / B tests with the world.

Some here may continue to debate the validity and methodology of OktavaMod / Neumann comparisons - you're welcome to.

But three groups of people have told me these comparisons are valid - 1.) those who have used Neumann mics and are looking for a "Neumann-esque" sound, 2.) those who have not used Neumann mics but regard them as one of the gold standards they wish to evaluate OktavaMod against and 3.) very happy OktavaMod clients from around the world who want to express to me, and recordists like themselves, their happiness with my work through their own A / B comparisons.
 
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