mixing when you have only one electric guitar track?

[Farview]

Anything you do with a pedal will be impossible to pan later, it's coming out of the same speaker.

If you are recording this, why wouldn't you just play the part twice?

 

[Nola]

In the live gigs...it sounded just as full.
If I recall, Johnny liked using a phase shifter pedal (or flanger) on stuff, which could fatten things up...but I don't hear it on this recording.

sweet, i just finished the byoc flanger last week for this exact reasoning.
i almost think the byoc flanger sounds like the best chorus and phase pedal i ever heard (when on the right settings) rather than a great flanger. it's a good flanger, but what's great about it is the chorus/phase you can get. it's 3 pedals in 1.

 

[RAMI]

Sweet, that's exactly what I need -- arranging and mixing for 3 piece. Almost all my favorite bands are 3 pieces, so I think I lean toward sparseness, and when mixing I'm realizing it's tricky. I'll study my favorite bands' recordings some more, but I love music, in general, and open minded to all styles...so if anyone thinks of more sparse 3 piece albums like this Winter's one please post it.

Almost all Zeppelin is 3 piece, too. They do have some bigger productions with Mellotrons and shit. but a lot of it is just the 3 musicians and Plant.

 

[Chili]

Lately, I've been goofing around with a Ping-Pong stereo delay set with short delay times (about 100 - 180ms) and almost no feedback. It really widens out the guitar and still keeps it centered.

Here is an example. During the verses it's only one guitar with the Ping-Pong delay....

 

[Nola]

Almost all Zeppelin is 3 piece, too. They do have some bigger productions with Mellotrons and shit. but a lot of it is just the 3 musicians and Plant.

Yeah that's true. The Who and a lot of other bands fit, too, if you take the singer out. But in the studio I think they overdubbed a lot (at least later Who..the early stuff sounds more thin and raw, like "Pictures of Lily" era). I really love that early stuff.

 

[Nola]

Crap, now I'm listening to The Who instead of recording.
Man, Happy Jack is such a sweet bass/drum part. What rhythm is that? Is it like 4/4 half time feel?

 

[Chili]

If you're mixing for a 3-piece band, try putting a stereo chorus on the bass too.

 

[Nola]

Here is an example. During the verses it's only one guitar with the Ping-Pong delay....

Chili, is the guitar center during those chorus?
That sounds bigger for sure.

I recently did a track and panned like 40% L and then put delay on it, and I was fairly happy with it, but something seemed out of balance still, like my right ear was straining a bit to hear the fainter guitar. I think I should have made the OH mono and panned it with the snare to the right.

This is all very helpful. Sorry if I'm thinking out loud and babbling at this point.

 

[RAMI]

I recently did a track and panned like 40% L and then put delay on it, and I was fairly happy with it, but something seemed out of balance still, like my right ear was straining a bit to hear the fainter guitar.

Don't rule out the option Farview gave you. Record twice. It's still one guitar part, but in true stereo.

 

[Nola]

Don't rule out the option Farview gave you. Record twice. It's still one guitar part, but in true stereo.

Yeah, I hear you guys. I just have a bad setup with neighbors and want to keep the recordings to as few as possible, and honestly, some songs call for sparse, and I think this one does. But not TOO sparse to where it's unbalanced. You guys gave me great ideas I'm good now and just thinking out loud.

Rami, you're a drummer, right? Can you explain what's going on in Happy Jack? I love that feel whatever it is.

 

[RAMI]

Rami, you're a drummer, right? Can you explain what's going on in Happy Jack? I love that feel whatever it is.

I can't listen right now, but I'll check it out later. I just hope it's not in 7/8.

 

[Chili]

Chili, is the guitar center during those chorus?
That sounds bigger for sure.

I recently did a track and panned like 40% L and then put delay on it, and I was fairly happy with it, but something seemed out of balance still, like my right ear was straining a bit to hear the fainter guitar. I think I should have made the OH mono and panned it with the snare to the right.

This is all very helpful. Sorry if I'm thinking out loud and babbling at this point.

On that song, the intro and choruses have a second guitar playing in there. During the verse, it's just one guitar.

The Ping-Pong delay sends the dry signal out the center, the 1st delay out one side, the 2nd delay out the other side. You normally hear it in songs like Pink Floyd or something with long delay times and lots of repetitions bouncing side to side. But if you shorten the delay and have it repeat once on each side, it fattens up the guitar nicely.

And there is always this.

Don't rule out the option Farview gave you. Record twice. It's still one guitar part, but in true stereo.

I'm all about symmetry and this is the best way to get it.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

A short ping-pong is going to be a lot like early reflections.

 

[miroslav]

Record twice. It's still one guitar part, but in true stereo.

Well it's not true...oh, it's OK, I know what you're saying.
Besides, you're still working out the 7/8ths thing...no time for a "true stereo" discussion.

Yeah...recording twice is usually better than any kind of copy/pan/delay things...unless as Chili was suggesting, you're going to do a timmed ping-pong thing where it might work better to copy...etc....so both are 100% identical.

That said...I can't say enough nice things about the Brainworx Stereomaker plug I mentioned earlier...I mean, it really does a fantastic stereo that doesn't have any of that wishy/phasy fake stereo vibe, so in a pinch...if you can't do another guitar track...or some actual stereo mic recording...it can add that flavor for you with a couple of clicks.

 

[RAMI]

Well it's not true...oh, it's OK, I know what you're saying.

Yeah, as soon as I typed "True Stereo", I said to myself "I got a baaaaad feeling about this".

That said...I can't say enough nice things about the Brainworx Stereomaker plug I mentioned earlier...I mean, it really does a fantastic stereo that doesn't have any of that wishy/phasy fake stereo vibe, so in a pinch...if you can't do another guitar track...or some actual stereo mic recording...it can add that flavor for you with a couple of clicks.

I'll have to check it out. Not that I'll need it often, but I've been in a situation where I used a cheap ADT-type plug-in to get faux-stereo out of a guitar track.

 

[RAMI]

Rami, you're a drummer, right? Can you explain what's going on in Happy Jack? I love that feel whatever it is.

It's in 5/4 at times, and 4/4 most of the other times, and it's pretty typical Keith Moon, which means it's awesome.

 

[Nola]

It's in 5/4 at times, and 4/4 most of the other times, and it's pretty typical Keith Moon, which means it's awesome.

Sweet, thanks.

Yeah it feels totally bizarre/awesome, so it must be the back and forth between 5/4 and 4/4.

 

[RAMI]

Sweet, thanks.

Yeah it feels totally bizarre/awesome, so it must be the back and forth between 5/4 and 4/4.

Without going back to listen, I think all the parts in the verses that have vocals are in 5/4, then it goes back to 4/4 for 2 bars.

So the "Happy Jack wasn't old, but he was a man" is 5/4 and then 2 bars of 4/4....repeat, etc.....The choruses are 4/4.

 

[RFR]

For a three piece, guitar bass drums, I like to use mulitple mics.
Guitar usually has a room mic as well as a direct mic.

Direct is panned off center with the room mic panned hard opposite the direct mic. It fills out the mix nicely.

Often times I'll record the band live so you have the guitar in the drum overheads too.

With this technique you'll have at least 4 mics capturing one source point with all the mics giving it a different flavor.

It may or may not work for your tastes, but I've had countless people loving my guitar tones. The most important of which are the people who are being recorded.

 

[RAMI]

For a three piece, guitar bass drums, I like to use mulitple mics.
Guitar usually has a room mic as well as a direct mic.

Direct is panned off center with the room mic panned hard opposite the direct mic. It fills out the mix nicely.

Often times I'll record the band live so you have the guitar in the drum overheads too.

With this technique you'll have at least 4 mics capturing one source point with all the mics giving it a different flavor.

It may or may not work for your tastes, but I've had countless people loving my guitar tones. The most important of which are the people who are being recorded.

Thanx man, that's great info. To me, that almost exactly describes how that Johnny Winter album sounds. The guitar is a little to one side, but it's also on the other side. I'm not talking about simply panning it a little bit to one side, that's the obvious part. It's the full sound that probably comes with room mics, like a controlled live recording.