mixing when you have only one electric guitar track?
- Thread starter Nola
- Start date
Farview
Well-known member
There are a number of things you can try, but it depends on the type of song it is.
1. add a short room reverb to the guitar to give it a little spread
2. pan guitar a bit one way and pan the bass a bit the other, then add a bit of both to the reverb on the drums
3. stereo chorus
4. short delay (30-50ms) with the high end EQed down panned away from the guitar.
The first couple Van Halen albums only have one rhythm guitar track. Listen to those to get an idea.
1. add a short room reverb to the guitar to give it a little spread
2. pan guitar a bit one way and pan the bass a bit the other, then add a bit of both to the reverb on the drums
3. stereo chorus
4. short delay (30-50ms) with the high end EQed down panned away from the guitar.
The first couple Van Halen albums only have one rhythm guitar track. Listen to those to get an idea.
Nola
Well-known member
thanks farview, those are good ideas, and i tried a few already, and found #4 the best so far. I'll try different combinations of what you mention.
when you say stereo chorus do you mean adding it after the fact or recording it with a chorus pedal and 2 mics?
i should mention the guitar is clean.
when you say stereo chorus do you mean adding it after the fact or recording it with a chorus pedal and 2 mics?
i should mention the guitar is clean.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Yup...all valid options.
I know a lot of folks feel the bass guitar, just like Kick and Snare, should always be centered...but I've never had a problem spreading them apart to 1.) open up the center for the vocal, and 2.) fill out the image when there's sparse instrumentation.
Another approach is to actually record the guitar with a stereo mic configuration...like Blumlein Pair or M/S configuration.
You might think you will end up with some huge Left-Right stereo spread...but not really.
The guitar track can still be placed in the image like a mono track, yet there is this 3D quality to it, so that if/when you pan it a little off center, it still feels wide L/R without getting in the way like a pair of tracks might.
The bigger the room, the more that 3D effect will be noticeable.
Also...both of these mic configurations are mono-compatible...so you don't lose anything if the image is collapsed on a mono playback system.
Nola
Well-known member
Yeah that sounds interesting. I've never recorded stereo guitar, so it would be a learning curve, but it sounds like a good option for a situation like this. If you record them stereo, can you still pan each mic's tracks l/r in the DAW?
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
I've been using opposite-panned early reflections.
Also, if the drums are naturally biased toward one side (heavy on the hihats or ride etc.) you can put the guitar opposite of that.
Also, if the drums are naturally biased toward one side (heavy on the hihats or ride etc.) you can put the guitar opposite of that.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
Any DAW that can't do that isn't worth the name.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
The hardest part of stereo recording...is getting the damn mics in place.
Both Blumlein Pair and M/S have a very close & specific arrangement...so you need the right hardware stands/sockmounts...but nothing too hard.
After that, it's no different than using a single mic.
The two recorded tracks by default are panned hard L/R...with the M/S pair, you need a "matrix" to encode/decode, but with DAWs it's very easy to set up. Some decent preamps will have it built in...so in the end, even the M/S pair, you have a Left and Right.
Now you can pan those tracks more toward center...but then you start to lose the stereo mic effect.
The real slick trick to panning a stereo guitar is to *record* it in the position where you want it to be panned, and then leave the two tracks hard Left/Right.
IOW....move the mics as you monitor the stereo mic output so the guitar ends up in the Left-to-Right spot where you want it to be in the mix....rather then altering the level of the Left/Right tracks post-recording....but, you have a lot of options, so try them all and see what works for you.
I've done a couple of songs with a lot of stereo recorded tracks...and it does eat up tracks (for me that's a PITA because I'm tracking to tape before going to DAW, and I only have 24 tape tracks)...but there is a sound to it that you will never mimic artificially, and to get close, you have to employ some delay and reverb processing...etc.
Nola
Well-known member
But I mean there's no weird anomaly where if you record in stereo and then pan it wider in the daw things break down.
The guitar part is more along the lines of that band The Smiths so kind of jangle and mellow. I just don't think a 2nd guitar part fits so I want to keep it to 1, but it's a bit thin. I think 2 mics is interesting other than having to consider phase in a bad room. I'll probably go with that option.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
No phase issues with Blumlien Pair or M/S configs...and again, by default the tracks ARE panned hard left/right in the mix...so going winder can only be done with some kind of stereo enhancer...but of course, panning inward is easy.
That said...with the M/S....if you like raise the level of the Side mics...it sounds like your mix goes wider...but you can end up with a hole in the middle as the Mid mic disappears...but again, lots of room for experimentation with no penalty....just move the faders back.
Oh...you may want to try a plug.
I've used the Brainworx Stereomaker to make a single track sound bigger/wider/stereo...and it's one of the best "stereoizer" plugs on the market...and it's one of the few that is 100% mono compatible.
That said...with the M/S....if you like raise the level of the Side mics...it sounds like your mix goes wider...but you can end up with a hole in the middle as the Mid mic disappears...but again, lots of room for experimentation with no penalty....just move the faders back.
Oh...you may want to try a plug.
I've used the Brainworx Stereomaker to make a single track sound bigger/wider/stereo...and it's one of the best "stereoizer" plugs on the market...and it's one of the few that is 100% mono compatible.
Nola
Well-known member
Cool, thanks Miroslav.
I don't know if you guys are familiar with The Smiths, but it's kind of thin electric guitar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJRP3LRcUFg
I'm listening to some of their other recordings, and it sounds like they add arpeggios in the opposite speaker and/or delay effects.
Is there a best practice for adding delay? like should i get a delay pedal and do it there, or is adding it via a plugin in the daw acceptable? i'm going to try the 2 mic setup, too, btw. i just want several options.
I don't know if you guys are familiar with The Smiths, but it's kind of thin electric guitar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJRP3LRcUFg
I'm listening to some of their other recordings, and it sounds like they add arpeggios in the opposite speaker and/or delay effects.
Is there a best practice for adding delay? like should i get a delay pedal and do it there, or is adding it via a plugin in the daw acceptable? i'm going to try the 2 mic setup, too, btw. i just want several options.
Farview
Well-known member
Add it after the fact. If you only have one amp, it will still be mono, no matter how many mics you put on it.
Also realize that you guitar will need to have a little more weight to it, since it's the only thing there. Don't make it too bright or thin.
R
RAMI
Guest
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
Ideally you record it with the width you want built in, using placement etc. If it needs to be a little wider you can do that, but as mentioned you'll get a gap in the middle if you push it.
Nola
Well-known member
Cool. So to me that sounds like the guitar is panned left but not hard left, then the snare/OH are more on the right. That's a pretty cool mix, actually.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Fuckin' Yeah!
One of my favorite players. Seen him a bunch of times.
Guitar, Bass and Drums...and it sounds so damn full because Johnny was a master of playing rhythm & lead guitar while he sang....you almost think there's two guitar players at times.
R
RAMI
Guest
Yeah, that whole album is a great reference on a 3 piece band mix. I wonder if they have some kind of ADT on the guitar just to widen it a bit. It's one guitar, but it takes up a lot of room.
Here's the whole album if you want to skip through and get some ideas. Occasionally, there's a rythm guitar under the solos, but it's 90% just one guitar.
https://youtu.be/dzStP6vNk3Q
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
In the live gigs...it sounded just as full.
If I recall, Johnny liked using a phase shifter pedal (or flanger) on stuff, which could fatten things up...but I don't hear it on this recording.
R
RAMI
Guest
Yeah, no this isn't during his phase shifter phase (no pun intended). I actually found that annoying. In fact, the weird thing is, even though he's one of my all time favorite guitar players, it's really only because of this one album. I'm not a big blues fan, so I'm not much into a lot of his other stuff. But this one hard rocking album is awesome.
Nola
Well-known member
Sweet, that's exactly what I need -- arranging and mixing for 3 piece. Almost all my favorite bands are 3 pieces, so I think I lean toward sparseness, and when mixing I'm realizing it's tricky. I'll study my favorite bands' recordings some more, but I love music, in general, and open minded to all styles...so if anyone thinks of more sparse 3 piece albums like this Winter's one please post it.