mixing question regarding volume

[icystorm]

I am a novice mixer, and I have a question for the pros.

I am mixing (using software only) eight tracks of individual instruments. In order to prevent clipping while achieving the highest possible volume, I turn the tracks on one at a time and adjust the volume, compression, EQ, etc., for each individual track.

Everything is perfect for the individual tracks, but when I add the bass guitar (which has a good volume when it stands alone), it pushes the entire mix over the edge (too loud/hot) which results in clipping. Not a lot; just barely.

So, I went back and reduced the bass guitar volume, added more compression, adjusted the EQ. I tried these steps one at a time and in varying degrees. I have taken the volume so low that it is not perceivable in the final mix, yet that one bass guitar track still pushes the entire mix into the clipping range when I add it. It's driving me bonkers. Any ideas?

I am mixing with Acoustica Mixcraft 4.1x.

As a side note, I can rarely get my songs above the 91-92 dB range without clipping, but I hate using a limiter, because it seems to change the outcome too much. I need more schooling!

Thanks for any advice!

Cheers,
Joseph

 

[bozmillar]

A couple options:

1) Your bass is too loud, so turn that down.

2) Your bass has a DC bias that is pushing everything to the limit. run it through a high pass filter.

3) Turn down the master fader. If your software uses internal 32bit mixing, then it won't hurt your dynamic range.

4) compress the bass. You may just have transients shooting above your threshold. You should get rid of them.

5) Use a limiter. If you think the limiter sounds worse than clipping, then you are using it wrong.

I think that most likely that the solution is a combination of 1,3 and 4.

 

[icystorm]

A couple options:

1) Your bass is too loud, so turn that down.

2) Your bass has a DC bias that is pushing everything to the limit. run it through a high pass filter.

3) Turn down the master fader. If your software uses internal 32bit mixing, then it won't hurt your dynamic range.

4) compress the bass. You may just have transients shooting above your threshold. You should get rid of them.

5) Use a limiter. If you think the limiter sounds worse than clipping, then you are using it wrong.

I think that most likely that the solution is a combination of 1,3 and 4.

Thanks, Bozmillar. I'll try your suggestions. Another thing that I just tried, which seems to be helping, is the use of Voxengo Spectrum Analyzer. That shows me what frequencies are too loud. D'oh!

Cheers,
Joseph

 

[rayc]

The Spec. Analyser can be a good tool - try to rely on your ears IF you can. I need to use one occasionally due hearing loss in some frequencies.
Check for bias in the bass.
I had a lot of probs with bias in tracks sent to me - there'd been aprob with the soundcard at the recording end that wasn't audible on it's own but when dropped into the mix it caused all sorts of probs. (when converted to MP3 there was a HEAP of obvious distortion/clipping that wasn't apparant in wav.)
I've used an offset in a wave editing prog to fix it as well as a pass filter - makes a heap of diff.
If you'd rather avoid compression (I do if I can) it may be a case of automating the fader on the bass to keep a consistent level.

 

[icystorm]

The Spec. Analyser can be a good tool - try to rely on your ears IF you can. I need to use one occasionally due hearing loss in some frequencies.
Check for bias in the bass.
I had a lot of probs with bias in tracks sent to me - there'd been aprob with the soundcard at the recording end that wasn't audible on it's own but when dropped into the mix it caused all sorts of probs. (when converted to MP3 there was a HEAP of obvious distortion/clipping that wasn't apparant in wav.)
I've used an offset in a wave editing prog to fix it as well as a pass filter - makes a heap of diff.
If you'd rather avoid compression (I do if I can) it may be a case of automating the fader on the bass to keep a consistent level.

Thanks, Ray. Sounds like good advice. I'll try your solutions.

Cheers,
Joseph

 

[joeym]

The answer to the limiter problem is to leave enough head-room in the mix. My master fader never exceeds -10 db in the final mix. Each individual track will not go over -20 or -15 db. After I mix down, I slap a compressor to tighten it up and a limiter to increase volume. Seems to work fine for me.

 

[K-dub]

This was a question from someone on some other forum somewhere ... related to tracking and mixing levels (I use a DAW for mixing) ... it looked like a re-post here might be appropriate:


I'll admit somewhat sheepishly that I tend to track by coloring w/in the -6db lines on my DAW. I figured that's what the people who put them there drew them there for, and at least THEY know what's supposed to happen.

So these days I make certain that the individual tracks are hitting roughly around (RMS -- average "loudness") at -18 to -14 digital ... with the transient peaks not exceeding the -6db lines too far too long.

In my early days, I USED to run RMS right up "against" the -6db lines ... but that's way too hot to track at ... there's no room for things to breath ... they're already pressed against the glass.

Here's an example of what I used to do versus what I've been doing lately ...

I regularly employ a limiter across the two bus to avoid clipping.

When I used to get my 324 hot tracks all summed in the two bus, the limiter was employed primarily as clip control ... and I could only run it to kick in at, say -1 or -2 db and brick the signal at -.2db ... basically just to shave off the tops of the signal so that they wouldn't go over the clip line.

Doing it that hot wastes the plugs versatility ... for if you're already sending too hot signals to the sum bus, then turning the limiter beyond just the mildest of settings makes everything REALLY HOT, and flattens the sound into cardboard.

Mind you, you can still get pretty colors pressed up against the glass in high detail ... but there's absolutely no depth to the sound ...



OTOH ... these days ... w/o a limiter applied, the two bus would peak at -10db or so ...

So turning up the limiter does two things:

1) Like before, it stops the tops
2) Unlike before, it allows everything to breath

The result becomes a big sound that breaths ... and has depth ... because tracking and mixing the individual tracks at low levels allows the plug to function as more than just a hedge clipper. NOTE: Mix at low levels too ... it doesn't help to track low, and pump the individual tracks up to +6db ... you've just traded one hot path for the other.


So ...


I hope that answers the question.


Best,

Kev-

(ed note: btw ... the tune under discussion as to how I handled levels is currently posted on the first page of this bbs ... it may have gone to page 2 by the time you read this. Look for: Track 5 "A Song for Holly" ... for illustration of the sound)

 

[icystorm]

The answer to the limiter problem is to leave enough head-room in the mix. My master fader never exceeds -10 db in the final mix. Each individual track will not go over -20 or -15 db. After I mix down, I slap a compressor to tighten it up and a limiter to increase volume. Seems to work fine for me.

Thanks kindly, joeym. I'll try your advice.

Cheers,
Joseph

 

[icystorm]

This was a question from someone on some other forum somewhere ... related to tracking and mixing levels (I use a DAW for mixing) ... it looked like a re-post here might be appropriate:

Excellent. Thanks for reposting that!

Cheers,
Joseph