Mixing help please

[True Octave]

I'm new to recording multiple tracks. When recording a song, I record my tracks one at a time. I have no problem getting my track to sound good separately. I sometimes add E.Q. and effects to the track individually to get them to sound the way I want. My problem is with the mixdown. My clean sounding tracks become muddy sounding when they are all mixed together. Or I should say the mix sounds muddy and or cluttered. It's hard to hear one sound from the next. I've been playing with the panning and gotten some improvements but still not satisfied. I'm doing it all digittal by P.C. with soundbladter Audigy platinum (sound card) and Cubasis VST.
Please help.

 

[Massive Master]

I hate to say it, but what it really takes is practice. Sometimes years and years of practice, before you can get mixes sounding truly "clean" -

What you're looking to do is find frequencies in certain instruments that are "arguing" with other instruments. Each track needs its own "sonic area" to live in.

It takes a lot of practical experience, but over time, it gets much easier and almost second nature.

I know someone will have some links to throw in any time now...

Fellas?

John Scrip - www.massivemastering.com

 

[True Octave]

(What you're looking to do is find frequencies in certain instruments that are "arguing" with other instruments. Each track needs its own "sonic area" to live in.)

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Does this mean one instrament could cause another to sound distorted or out of tune? I think I know what you mean by each sound having its own space. When I listen to professional recordings I can hear each sound distinctly. Is this acheived in the way you record or the way you mix? Thanks for your responce.

 

[tmix]

True,
What John says is very true.
Instruments when played out in the open air have a lot of room in which the sounds can mix, sometime in a good way sometimes in a bad way if the room has problem frequencies.
When trying to mix sound that is coming from a pair of speakers, the problem becomes worse because the physics of the mechanical nature of the speaker also comes into play.

Many instruments (Bass guitar and drums or piano and voice) produce and occupy the same frequency ranges. When both are sounding full in their own right they can have excessive tonal build up when mixed together. Think of mixing like an artist would think of painting. You simply dont paint an exact picture of every single item in a picture and hope it looks congruous. You have to paint from the bottom up putting in backgrounds and shadows and work your way to the front only supplying the items of the picture that actually define the object for what it is. Possibly the last paint stroke!

It really is an art to which nothing but experiance can reveal. Eventually you will start tracking sounds with your mixing in mind.Usually the nastiest sounding clanky bass track sounds the best in the mix.

Tom

 

[Track Rat]

All of the above is very true. You have to get the soloing tracks thing out of your head. If a individual track sounds good all by itself doesn't mean at all that it will sound good in a mix. Just the opposite. As stated two or more instruments/voices can and do occupy the same fundamental frequencies and all of this will pile up and create (you guessed it) mud. It can take years to get your arms around this. Don't be discouraged though, it's a lot more fun learning to mix than mowing the grass.

 

[dwillis45]

Sometimes it helps to think of a mix as a three dimensional space--like a cube. Try to place instruments (sounds) in different locations in the cube with the goal of spreading them out uniformly. How? Start with panning which gives you left right placement in the cube. For the top and bottom, use volume adjustments and for depth, effects like reverb and compression. Then address the details with EQ adjustments. Think in terms of conflicts between instruments and use EQ to reduce those conflicts. What instruments overlap each other and where? Unfortunately, pretty much everything because instruments produce multiple frequencies. But with some experience and reading you can narrow the list down so that you have a common set of problem areas to look at when your mixing.

The other thing to keep in mind is that mixing is also closely tied to the art of arrangement. You can do a lot for a mix by eliminating unecessary instruments and creating "thick" and "thin" areas. You don't always need 24 tracks and a wall of sound!

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

This has helped me a lot.

http://www.mojopie.com/mix.html

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Regarding 3-dimensional space....

Panning gives you control over left-to-right placement, EQ gives you control over up-down placement (high freqs appear to come from above, lo-freqs below), while level control gives you front-back control (lower volume equates to a sound being further back in the soundstage, while louder sounds would appear to being closer to the front of the soundstage.)

Use effects such as delay/reverb to enhance, expand, or accentuate the placement characteristics.

My article (link posted by Kevin above) goes into further detail...

 

[grinder]

Yup, welcome to our world. The above posts are all good suggestions. Another suggestion is rolling off all unneeded frequencies. For example, using a high pass filter at around 100hz on guitars, to keep them out of the bass guitars territory. An RTA can help you learn to identify frequencies by ear and help find problem areas. As mentioned, soloed tracks will sound thin, especially in a full mix. Panning instruments that occupy the same frequecies will also help. Here are some good articles on all aspects of recording and mixing, good luck.

http://theprojectstudiohandbook.com/directory.htm

 

[tonyA]

Short of going to the 'School of EQ', you may want to try the 'School of Music Parts and Volume Control'. The School of EQ teaches you how to modify your EQ so there won't be any contention, (and Lord help you if there are any possible phase cancellation). But is done in the assumption that your track volume adjustments are correct and will stay the way it is.

While tracking, we must of course, record each track the cleanest and loudest without distortion. After that, we must mix them. Try listening to records that you like or in the same genre of the music your are trying to produce. Does the bass guitar have the same volume as the vocal track, lead guitar, rythmn, keyboards, back up vocals? Make your determination from there which one should be dominant and which ones should be just a "support" track and adjust your volume controls accordingly. I know, most of us like to have everything sound as loud as we want to, but it just wont work that way. Now if your sound still sounds muddy, try the EQ route.

__________________
"For God so love the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life"

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

Regarding 3-dimensional space....

My article (link posted by Kevin above) goes into further detail...

You wrote that? Now I get to thank you personally.

THANKS

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

While tracking, we must of course, record each track the cleanest and loudest without distortion.

I have to disagree with your comment on recording each track the cleanest and loudest.

A better way of describing it is to capture the sound during tracking, the way you want it to sound, rather than relying on EQ or "fixing it in the mix" to get the sound.

But you don't "have to" track it loud - tracking level depends on many factors - some include the resolution of the recording medium, but it also depends on the nature of the track itself. In determining best tracking levels for your system, you have to take into account your mixer's headroom as well.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

You wrote that? Now I get to thank you personally.

THANKS

You're welcome - glad to hear it was of some use!

 

[grinder]

The other thing to keep in mind is that mixing is also closely tied to the art of arrangement. You can do a lot for a mix by eliminating unecessary instruments and creating "thick" and "thin" areas. You don't always need 24 tracks and a wall of sound!

Good point. For a fun exercise in composition and mixing, take a basic progression and see how many guitar parts you can add, while keeping each part distinct.

 

[tonyA]

I have to disagree with your comment on recording each track the cleanest and loudest.

I can't believe you disagree with that, Blue Bear, for an experienced guy like you, you should know that, while we may have digital recorders now with great Signal to Noise ratio, it still make sense to record as clear and loud while capturing sound. As a matter of fact, it almost always recommended to record dry while tracking and add the effects during the mix, except on those things that affects they way the singer or player plays if the effects are absent. Recording dry gives you more flexibility. I know you know that. (Mixer's headroom, recorders resolution, etc. are of course considered without even mentioning it, duh!) "Fixing it in the Mix" refers to WRONG items, not the right one! You can't fix a very low volume recorded track in the mix. Oh sure you could, by boosting the volume level, but you and I know that will boost the noise too.

__________________
"For God so love the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life"

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

I disagree because there are many factors to choosing an appropriate tracking level for a person's rig. Gear headroom, recording medium resolution, type of material ALL play a role in determining optimum tracking level.

IMO, you can't generalize with a blanket statement such as "track the loudest possible."

I'm not saying you're wrong, simply that there are many situations that this doesn't apply.

 

[Track Rat]

Like if you mix completely inside a computer with software vs mixing through an analog console.

 

[tonyA]

. . . ALL play a role in determining optimum tracking level.
. . .

My point exactly.....OPTIMUM TRACKING LEVEL...."Cleanest and Loudest possible" I rest my case....

__________________
"For God so love the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life"

 

[Track Rat]

My point exactly.....OPTIMUM TRACKING LEVEL...."Cleanest and Loudest possible" I rest my case....

__________________
"For God so love the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life"

In a word, wrong.

 

[Chibi Nappa]

As far as "tracking the cleanest and loudest goes"....

You don't always want to record clean. As Bluebear said, you want to "capture the sound" when you track. Just this weekend we did some drum tracks, and the drummer wanted them dirty as hell. I listened to the live performance of the song and agreed. Ummmm.... everybody who's "new" to recording avert your eyes for a second, you probably shouldn't read this. ..... Anyway, we ended up recording tracks so dirty that they litteraly are plauged with digital clipping everywhere. Cheap mics and harsh mic positioning...I mean these drum tracks sound like hell with pops and tracks that go silent for a fraction of a second after cymbal hits. It really, really sounds bad and goes compleatly against a "clean" recording. But you know what? The sound fits the song like a glove. OK, all you recording novices can read the next line. We did record a "traditional" clean drum sound as a "safety net" on virtual track 2, but I doubt we'll use it.

Anyway, the point is that you have to record exactly the sound you want. This means listening carefully in the monitors after each take with the entire mix playing. Remember, excessive EQ is also "fixing it in the mix", so track in a way that everything sounds good with just the faders up and nothing else.